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Speed Cameras when Variable Speed Signs are showing nothing
singh005
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 17:55
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I received a NIP for doing 92mph in 70mph on M1 motorway between junction 40 & 39 southbound. It says it was an automatic camera device. I did see the flash but was surprised as the variable speed signs were not showing any speed limit. Previously I've only seen these cameras operational once a variable speed limit is being displayed which i then obey. I was under the impression this was the case throughout the uk. From googling i've found some sites comment that its up the discretion of the local enforcement on how these cameras operate, that they can be active for the national speed limit as well. Can any one confirm if this is true? Do i have a case to appeal?


Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
As you were not responsible for the vehicle, somebody else has named you as the driver. Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England
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post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 17:55
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peterguk
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:00
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Of course the cameras can police NSL! Why not?

You have nothing to appeal. Limit if no VSL displayed is NSL. Simples.


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NewJudge
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:28
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I am genuinely interested in your logic. You seem to believe that National Speed Limit is not enforceable by these devices but only the temporary lower ones are.

At present you have no grounds for an “appeal” as you have nothing to appeal against. At the moment you are only being asked to name the driver at the time of the allegation. If you were the driver and you name yourself you should receive a conditional offer of a Fixed Penalty (£100 and three points). Since you have no defence (at least none that you have mentioned) to the allegation your best course of action would be to accept the offer.
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cp8759
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:44
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There is nothing to appeal as you have not even been charged yet. You do not appear to have a defence so I would recommend you accept the fixed penalty if one has been offered


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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singh005
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:55
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:28) *
I am genuinely interested in your logic. You seem to believe that National Speed Limit is not enforceable by these devices but only the temporary lower ones are.


Just from my own experience, i average 35k miles a year for the last 15 year and have never received a NIP from any of the variable speed cameras when the NSL is being enforced.

Rather than thinking i and my colleagues were just lucky, i assumed they only enforced the temporary speed limit only. You can drive along the M6/M42 around Birmingham and the cameras wont flash if the VSL is disabled. Thanks for the feedback anyway.
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BaggieBoy
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 19:21
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Nope, you and your colleagues have been lucky. There are plenty of documented cases of enforcement of NSL in sections that have VSL.
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Incandescent
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 19:38
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Much depends on the speed threshold in the camera software that triggers a recording. I suspect in some places this is set quite high, but for me, I'm not prepared to go too much over the NSL to find out !
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NewJudge
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 20:04
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QUOTE (singh005 @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:55) *
Rather than thinking i and my colleagues were just lucky, i assumed they only enforced the temporary speed limit only.

It wasn't that which intrigued me. What did was the fact that now you have been detected you wondered whether, because you had not been detected previously, you had grounds to defend the matter.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 20:11
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 20:04) *
QUOTE (singh005 @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:55) *
Rather than thinking i and my colleagues were just lucky, i assumed they only enforced the temporary speed limit only.

It wasn't that which intrigued me. What did was the fact that now you have been detected you wondered whether, because you had not been detected previously, you had grounds to defend the matter.

Me too. I’m surprised anyone thinks they have a defence under the circumstances to driving 22mph in excess of the national speed limit.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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thisisntme
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 01:07
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QUOTE (singh005 @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 19:55) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:28) *
I am genuinely interested in your logic. You seem to believe that National Speed Limit is not enforceable by these devices but only the temporary lower ones are.


You can drive along the M6/M42 around Birmingham and the cameras wont flash if the VSL is disabled. Thanks for the feedback anyway.



I don't - I will be driving up the M6 tomorrow and will keep to NSL or thereabouts.

Be warned that M4 and M5 around Almondsbury definitely enforce NSL as there have been quite a few cases here, plus I have seen the cameras flash with no VSL shown.



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singh005
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:05
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appreciate all the feedback.

thanks
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superSmiffy
post Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 09:33
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QUOTE (singh005 @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:55) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:28) *
I am genuinely interested in your logic. You seem to believe that National Speed Limit is not enforceable by these devices but only the temporary lower ones are.


Just from my own experience, i average 35k miles a year for the last 15 year and have never received a NIP from any of the variable speed cameras when the NSL is being enforced.

Rather than thinking i and my colleagues were just lucky, i assumed they only enforced the temporary speed limit only. You can drive along the M6/M42 around Birmingham and the cameras wont flash if the VSL is disabled. Thanks for the feedback anyway.

The previous versions of the HADECS enforcement cameras only enforced one lane at each Gantry. The newer systems now have a radar beam that covers all lanes so any vehicle passing in any lane will have its speed measured. The systems can also measure the speeds of multiple vehicles simultaneously and identify the speeding vehicle from a crowd of vehicles.
The luck you mention is down to the probability of detection; that probability has just gone up to as close to 100% as is possible from well below 20% previously.
92mph in a 70mph Limit is no longer advisable as far as luck is concerned.
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