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Parked with a Permit - 4 Tickets We Can't Pay!
sauceoclock
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 12:07
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My husband received 4 parking tickets whilst working on site for a contracting agency at a medical facility. He had been given a permit by the contracting agency in order to park in the privately managed car park. A few weeks after he completed 4 days work he received a ticket for each day he parked from the private parking management company, we appealed and sent them the permit (which we have in hand) he had for staff that was clearly displayed and parked in the correct area. The reason for ticketing is 'Vehicle Not Registered On Database For Area'. Naturally, he was under the impression he was legally parked given he had a permit and had he have known the contracting agency hadn't completed some clerical work to register his vehicle on a computer he would have ensured this was done.

The recruitment agency who were responsible for paying him and subbed him out to the agency in question on site were supposed to be dealing with this and left us with the impression they'd get it sorted - they didn't and we received a final warning with 14 days to pay instructing us our time to appeal with the IAS has now lapsed also. I therefore took matters in to my own hands and found a contact number for the contractors on the medical facility site directly and explained, unfortunately they were none the wiser this had happened as the recruiters hadn't contacted them at all and have said to leave it with them to see what can be done. I don't think much can be done to retroactively add his permit to a database he doesn't have access to.
I have sent a follow up e-mail to the appeal e-mail address for the parking company explaining the situation, as with many of these charlatan private companies they cannot be contacted over telephone to allow you to speak to a human. I've requested more time for the appeal outcomes that the fees must be paid. Unfortunately we do not have the eye-watering sum they are requesting.

It is a likely outcome that this is going to end up going down the legal enforcement route, and I was wondering if we present evidence he had a permit, copies of the paperwork and copies of communication with the work agencies to show we were trying to find a resolution if the law will side on enforcement based around the permit not being registered online somewhere or if it's likely a common sense approach would be used that husband had a permit and parked as instructed by his management staff on site. I am nervous about him receiving a CCJ, we are hoping to immigrate in 2025 and the visa check for the country we intend to go to does look for CCJ's and outstanding financial issues and that could cost us.
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post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 12:07
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The Rookie
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 12:25
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OK, so to correct some errors in your understanding.
1. There is no 'legally' parked in the context of private parking, there is parking that qualifies for free/cheap parking and parking that doesn't and attracts the full £100 fee.
2. He needs to get back on to the agency who provided the permit and play hardball, they created a contractual offer for free parking and need to honour it or pay he parking charge, what is likely is that either his reg number wasn't provided (and there could be a long chain involving hospital staff in that) to the parking company or it was shared incorrectly.
3. Does he still have any contact with the hospital in question, direct contact may resolve it.
4. This isn't the final demand, there will be many more, like 'final final, and 'final, final, final' and 'final this time we really mean it honest' demands, its how this immoral industry works.
5. As it's an invoice there is no time limit on stating why no debt is owed, the time limits are their own artificial constructs to pressure people into paying.
6. Court action (aka legal enforcement) is a possibility, unfortunately the permit being provide 'second hand' harms the case compared to if the hospital provided it directly but that doesn't mean its not winnable. The agency would be working as an agent of the hospital the same as the parking company and so the hospital can be held accountable for their actions.

Do you understand that a CCJ ONLY is an issue after
1. A court claim is raised and sent to you, giving you a chance to defend
2. You fail to defend or lose in court
3. You still don't pay within the time stated.
Despite the wording they like to use, they can't just 'issue' a CCJ.


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ManxRed
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 12:46
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Is there anything either on the permit, on any paperwork your husband received prior to parking there, on any signs on site, or anywhere else that states that there is a need to register the vehicle on a database?

I'm struggling to see how a contract has even been breached here.


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sauceoclock
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 12:46
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Hello!

Thanks for that information,

To answer your questions and shed some light

1. no he doesn't have any contact with the hospital as he never worked for them.
2. I used legally colloquially, sorry, I meant he was parked within the constructed rules of the car park in question.
3. As a sub-contractor he doesn't have a written contract, he just went for a few days, did as instructed and left, it's not assumed parking is included however the presence of the permit in our possession would presumably evidence an implied contract of parking inclusivity.
4. The recruitment agency don't have contact with the company he was sent to - it's a really weird scenario here. Recruitment agency said they had a job for him, a middle company is somehow involved (I cannot get to the bottom of HOW, it turns out the recruiting agency who paid the invoices have been contacting this middle company every now and then and not actually doing anything to help). Husband turned up to work for the recruiter and had been subbed to a construction agency who then set him to work for four days. Today I made contact with the construction company so they're the closest we have to the hospital itself and were the ones who issued him the permit. They were much more amenable but I don't know what they could possibly do to help to be honest.

The only thing I do understand is the CCJ part (former mortgage advisor) what I am saying (not very clearly) is if we go and defend and lose - then we end up with a CCJ just as we are applying for a visa, so I was wondering if anyone had experience with this kind of scenario where he's not actually parked in a private car park willy nilly but instead did so with a permit and has been stung regardless and if a judge may look favourably on us for trying to resolve this matter. We would be letting this go to court as we simply don't have the money and nor is the ticket justifiable.

As the appeal was not upheld, one assumes you cannot proceed to appeal further if we now get a resolution with the construction agency? We won't be paying the tickets simply as we cannot afford a bill of + £700 which is what they're trying to charge.
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ManxRed
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 12:49
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If you go to court and defend and then lose, and then pay up, there is no CCJ.

By the way, missing your chance to appeal to the IAS is no big loss, it's a kangaroo court and would have rejected your appeal anyway, regardless of how watertight it was.

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Mon, 16 May 2022 - 12:50


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sauceoclock
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 13:02
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I've just called the hospital, left a message for the parking manager. I am hopeful they may be the resolution. Nothing anywhere stated the permit must be registered as with this kind of work there is no paperwork or contract other than an invoice to be paid, it's 'as and when, go where you're sent' work as a self employed sub-contractor. This likely falls to the construction agency who (by the sounds of the exasperated sigh from the car park secretary) appear to have failed to register permits frequently and likely have been told they should.

I'm awaiting a call back perhaps the hospital can get the PCN's expunged. What a run around for a stupid situation.

Thanks everyone for replying, I've never dealt with this side of the law before!

QUOTE (ManxRed @ Mon, 16 May 2022 - 13:49) *
If you go to court and defend and then lose, and then pay up, there is no CCJ.

By the way, missing your chance to appeal to the IAS is no big loss, it's a kangaroo court and would have rejected your appeal anyway, regardless of how watertight it was.



Good to know, just looked in to it - my god some of the horror stories!
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sauceoclock
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 18:21
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Update:
Construction company who ISSUED the permit are refusing to accept any responsibility and have sent us back to the two recruiting companies - one of which we have no contact with whatsoever as the initial recruiting agent who is not acting sent my husband out to their job and presumably was paid a fee for it.

Any ideas on who to contact next? Parking manager never got back to me so will try them again tomorrow. I don't see how a recruiter who wasn't on the site and didn't issue the permit could possibly help in this scenario.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 19:03
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The construction company issued the permit to him, creating a liability, remind them of that and ask for their help, or point out if needed that they may be explaining it to a judge otherwise.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Redx
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 19:40
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The defendant is usually given 30 days to pay in full, a grace period, which if completed promptly results in the judgment being expunged, so no ccj on anyone's record and no detriment to anyone's credit rating

So if the defendant lost in court , pay up , promptly , in full , to avoid those issues

It's not paying the judgment within the grace period that causes the recording of the ccj resulting in a bad credit rating for 6 years !

So pay in full , promptly , ASAP, if a loss in court happens
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sauceoclock
post Tue, 17 May 2022 - 09:44
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So we've had a response from the parking company who despite saying the reason for issue was a database registration have changed their reasoning now to the fact he was parked in the wrong area. He asked where to park and was instructed to park where he did as per his permit with the construction agency so there's definitely liability for the agencies - effectively I will be seeking recompense from them.

I've got the middle company calling me back today, what a palaver. Thanks everyone for your prompt and very insightful help!
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 May 2022 - 09:56
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QUOTE (sauceoclock @ Tue, 17 May 2022 - 10:44) *
despite saying the reason for issue was a database registration have changed their reasoning now to the fact he was parked in the wrong area.

You put
QUOTE
'Vehicle Not Registered On Database For Area'.

So I see no change there?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 17 May 2022 - 10:02
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Yep, that's not changed as a reason

How was he told where to park? Verbal? Written? Email or text for example.
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Redx
post Tue, 17 May 2022 - 11:00
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And look up promissory estoppel
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