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Signage compliance
smittenkitten
post Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 18:22
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Please can you take a look at the signage photos attached. Is the sign compliant with the The Traffic Signs regulations and General Directions 2016

This is a sign that is used by Islington Council to issue PCNs via CCTV I believe the sign to be obscured by the cut down the middle where the numbers are.

thanks for any feedback

This post has been edited by smittenkitten: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 18:25
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post Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 18:22
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nextdoor
post Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 18:38
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Seems fairly clear to me. Don't think an adjudicator would agree with you.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 19:07
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If you have a PCN, post it. Islington and other councils fold the signs to blank in school holidays - that's why there is a joint in the sign.
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cp8759
post Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 21:46
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QUOTE (smittenkitten @ Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 19:22) *
I believe the sign to be obscured by the cut down the middle where the numbers are.

Are you really saying you cannot read the sign because of the cut down the middle? Because that's what obscured means. As stamfordman says, if you have a PCN post up the details on here just like everybody else.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 21:46


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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 21:54
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September last year suggests we not only need to see a PCN but all other documents.
Mick
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smittenkitten
post Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 13:19
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Apologises should of explained better....

I have already won my case went to London Tribunals and Islington withdrew before it went in front of the adjudicators. - Arguments used were Poorly placed and the crease down the middle of the sign.

As well as being poorly placed I believe the lettering not to be correct, I have seen a few cases on here for the same area with the same PCN (Killick Street and the others in the area).

The signs do indeed open and close however this does cause a crease down the middle of the numbers which i believe can be mis-read for other numbers especially if you are trying to make a decision at a cross roads with cars behind you. Chapter 1, Section 1.2 of the Traffic Signs Manual states – ‘Signs must give road users their message clearly and at the correct time. The message must be unambiguous and speedily understood.

am i over reacting i am in the process of complaining to the council
thanks for feedback

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cp8759
post Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 13:41
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I think you'll struggle with that argument to be honest, the sign looks clear enough to me. To give you a proper view however I'd have to drive down and have a look.


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DancingDad
post Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 23:30
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Bear in mind that these days, strict compliance is not the test, substantial compliance is sufficient.
And is a subjective yardstick.

That the font is not strictly correct or slightly undersize will not be enough to damn signs.

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big_mac
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 13:39
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and it doesn't really matter what the 'obscured' digits say - it couldn't possibly be for a shorter period of time, so you can't get caught out by misreading the numbers.

It would probably be better to arrange the sign so that the crease doesn't run through the letters and numbers, but I think that's expecting a bit too much initiative (and could even result in a strictly non-compliant sign).
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Incandescent
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 18:01
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Why not just post up the case number, then we can see what decided the adjudicator to accept your appeal.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 09:31
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 19:01) *
Why not just post up the case number, then we can see what decided the adjudicator to accept your appeal.

QUOTE
...and Islington withdrew before it went in front of the adjudicators.


Which is not overly unusual, councils often DNC.
It is not an indication of the worth of the case, it may simply because the council didn't or couldn't be bovvered to fight it.
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