[NIP Wizard] No speed limit sign, dual carriageway, bulit-up area |
[NIP Wizard] No speed limit sign, dual carriageway, bulit-up area |
Mon, 3 Sep 2012 - 22:52
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Member No.: 40,710 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - July 2012 Date of the NIP: - 26 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 28 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Hampton Road West by Canterbury Rd E/B TW13 (9839) Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 3 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was driving my motorcycle on the above mentioned road, it is a dual carriageway, there is no speed camera warning sign and no speed limit signs. My speed was 38mph (it is a bulit-up area, so the limit is 30, stupidly I believed it is 40). The only sign i found ther is a blue "Dual carriageway ahead". Is there any chance to avoid the fines and the penalty points? http://goo.gl/maps/sc8Lf NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Yes Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 22:52:36 +0000 |
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Mon, 3 Sep 2012 - 22:52
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Mon, 3 Sep 2012 - 23:09
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
No 30 limit signs are required where there is street lighting, no camera signs are ever required. What was the good reason for the NIP's late arrival?
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Mon, 3 Sep 2012 - 23:32
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Member No.: 40,710 |
I bought the bike one day before, so they sent the first letter to the previous owner.
It looks like I will have another 3 points on my license update: if I want to take my case to the court, is there any chance they will offer a higher fine, but no points? This post has been edited by tcxbalage: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 - 23:44 |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 05:29
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,189 Joined: 8 Feb 2011 From: Gloucestershire Member No.: 44,109 |
No. If you go to court you will get a higher fine anyway plus costs and still get the points.
This post has been edited by mrh3369: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 05:30 -------------------- Edited as my IPhone thinks it knows best and changes my posts…
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 06:47
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
That speed should be eligible for an awareness course which avoids the points. The fee is around £90 though and half a day of your time.
Looking on GSV there is a speed camera sign (not that it is required) and no limit signs due to the street light arrangement. There's a speed curb camera which I presume caught you. This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 06:38 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 06:58
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,784 Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Member No.: 18,956 |
If you are already in a built up 30 area why would you think it had changed to 40 without any signs?
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 09:22
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Member No.: 40,710 |
Thank you all for the comments!
That speed should be eligible for an awareness course which avoids the points. The fee is around £90 though and half a day of your time. Looking on GSV there is a speed camera sign (not that it is required) and no limit signs due to the street light arrangement. There's a speed curb camera which I presume caught you. Unfortunatelly I did that course in the last 3 years If you are already in a built up 30 area why would you think it had changed to 40 without any signs? I think this is a bad habit, most of the dual carriageway's speedlimit - in built-up area - is 40mph. Obviously I'm talking about those areas, where I used to drive almost every day. Feltham is not one of them. When I reached the dual cw I was accelerating automaticly. That's all. This post has been edited by tcxbalage: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 09:22 |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 09:25
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Ok, very annoying - should end up with a standard fixed penalty (3pts/£60).
I think you've realised now but the limit in such circumstances is 30 unless otherwise posted. As a strict liability offence there is no distinction between deliberately or accidentally (or unknowingly) exceeding the limit. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 09:35
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Member No.: 40,710 |
Ok, very annoying - should end up with a standard fixed penalty (3pts/£60). I think you've realised now but the limit in such circumstances is 30 unless otherwise posted. As a strict liability offence there is no distinction between deliberately or accidentally (or unknowingly) exceeding the limit. Yep, I can't blame anyone but myself, should be more careful next time. This is the effect of routine in driving The only annoying thing about it, the insurance premium will goes up, which is - my opinion - really not fair. |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 09:38
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,189 Joined: 8 Feb 2011 From: Gloucestershire Member No.: 44,109 |
It seems very fair to me, more points = higher insurance risk although 3 points is unlikely to have a huge impact.
-------------------- Edited as my IPhone thinks it knows best and changes my posts…
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 09:53
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
It seems very fair to me, more points = higher insurance risk although 3 points is unlikely to have a huge impact. OP is currently on 3 points so will be 6. Insurers work on risk and statistically more points increases this. Of course, the OP's argument will be that this particular transgression hasn't increased the risk but will be grouped with those that do. It may or may not be an opportunity to change insurers to counteract the premium increase. However, the T+C's of the insurance should be checked once the points arrive as some require immediate notification and others at renewal. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 09:55
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Member No.: 40,710 |
It seems very fair to me, more points = higher insurance risk although 3 points is unlikely to have a huge impact. Just because you drive faster than the speedlimit doesn't mean you gonna make (or involve to) an accident more likely. I'm talking about my case, 38mph instead of 30mph, I guess it is not a fatal mistake, this offence shouldn't be awarded by 3 points. However, the T+C's of the insurance should be checked once the points arrive as some require immediate notification and others at renewal. Thanks for the reminder! |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 10:05
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,189 Joined: 8 Feb 2011 From: Gloucestershire Member No.: 44,109 |
We are going off on a tangent here but statistically that's exactly what it means hence the increased premiums.
-------------------- Edited as my IPhone thinks it knows best and changes my posts…
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 10:12
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Member No.: 40,710 |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 11:40
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 490 Joined: 10 Oct 2004 Member No.: 1,737 |
QUOTE I agree with that, but we are not just statistic. Ins. Co. have nothing else to work with. Also, higher speed in an accident means higher cost for repairs and more serious injury. |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2012 - 13:16
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,194 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Just to clarify, if the previous course was with a different constabulary that was not part of the national scheme at the time then the Kent (?) Constabulary may not ne aware and offer another.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 6 Sep 2012 - 12:32
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Member No.: 40,710 |
Just to clarify, if the previous course was with a different constabulary that was not part of the national scheme at the time then the Kent (?) Constabulary may not ne aware and offer another. I dont get it, could you explain, please? My previous NIP was served by the Watford police (speeding in Bushey) and this one happened in Feltham. |
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Thu, 6 Sep 2012 - 12:36
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,506 Joined: 9 Jan 2008 From: manchester Member No.: 16,521 |
Just to clarify, if the previous course was with a different constabulary that was not part of the national scheme at the time then the Kent (?) Constabulary may not ne aware and offer another. I dont get it, could you explain, please? My previous NIP was served by the Watford police (speeding in Bushey) and this one happened in Feltham. -------------------- jobo
anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year, |
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Thu, 6 Sep 2012 - 12:48
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,194 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Canterbury is in Kent.......all the clue I has was Canterbury road so guessed and added a ? to indiacte that fact!
It's by county (which you forget to put in the wizard) so if it's in the same county then no you can't do another course, if it's in a different county then you MAY be able to. Neither Watford nor Feltham are county's, so at no point have you told us a county at all, so you'll have to figure that yourself or tell us! This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 - 12:49 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 6 Sep 2012 - 12:55
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 323 Joined: 6 Jul 2005 Member No.: 3,329 |
TBF, I also thought it was Kent when I saw Canterbury Road.
As it's in Feltham, it's either Surrey or HMC of the Metropolis. |
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