PCN for Using Restricted Route (twice), Can I be excused from paying the 2nd fine, no harm done |
PCN for Using Restricted Route (twice), Can I be excused from paying the 2nd fine, no harm done |
Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 13:42
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 16 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,450 |
I am a new driver (under 3 months) and used a bus/coach gate twice, both times at night and just didn't see the signs. I will definitely be more careful from now on.
I paid £65 for the 1st fine then received another one and was surprised. So turns out I made this mistake twice in the same week, no harm was caused, there weren't any vehicles around. I have until the 24th of April to pay the reduced amount of £65, but I would like to appeal to see if I can be excused seeing as I already paid for this mistake. Please let me know what you think I should write to the council. *Image of fine attached* This post has been edited by oabsgc: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 13:53 |
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Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 13:42
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Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 14:27
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Needs to be in the council part of this forum - and are you happy for your personal details to be seen by anyone?
...no harm was caused, there weren't any vehicles around. ...but I would like to appeal to see if I can be excused seeing as I already paid for this mistake. You're going to need something better than that - see if the council forum guys can find something. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 15:43
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Post a link to the location on google street view, and show us the video. See http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=125502 for advice on how to do that.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 19:53
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,915 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
OK, your 2nd contravention was 3rd April, so when was the first one ?
We have seen cases like yours, (worse actually !!) where people have merrily driven along the same bus lane unaware of it until they get a load of PCNs all together in the post. In these cases, they have stood their ground and taken all of them as one case to the adjudicators arguing that the penalty was excessive and won their case and paid only one. However in your case you have paid one already. The plain fact is that the council are likely to refuse your reps so you'd have to take the matter to London Tribunals for an unbiased look, and this means the full PCN penalty will be in play (£130). For councils this is a money game, pure and simple. The fact you did not inconvenience anybody means absolutely nothing to them, they only want your money. So, have you got a case to take to London Tribunals ?Frankly, my view is you haven't, and would be better paying the discount, but wait a bit to see what the others say. Don't however miss any deadlines for appealing or paying. |
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Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 12:39
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 16 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,450 |
The 1st offence was 28/03 and the 2nd was 03/04, I received the 1st fine letter after the 2nd offence had already happened.
Here is the link for the bus gate on Google Maps, there is also a blue arrow pointing to the middle gate, maybe I can use that in my defence? >> https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5958749,-0....3312!8i6656 I don't think its fair to have to pay it twice considering I received the 1st letter when it was too late and had done it twice. |
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Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 12:54
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 16 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,450 |
Post a link to the location on google street view, and show us the video. See http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=125502 for advice on how to do that. I've posted the link, in my previous reply OK, your 2nd contravention was 3rd April, so when was the first one ? We have seen cases like yours, (worse actually !!) where people have merrily driven along the same bus lane unaware of it until they get a load of PCNs all together in the post. In these cases, they have stood their ground and taken all of them as one case to the adjudicators arguing that the penalty was excessive and won their case and paid only one. However in your case you have paid one already. The plain fact is that the council are likely to refuse your reps so you'd have to take the matter to London Tribunals for an unbiased look, and this means the full PCN penalty will be in play (£130). For councils this is a money game, pure and simple. The fact you did not inconvenience anybody means absolutely nothing to them, they only want your money. So, have you got a case to take to London Tribunals ?Frankly, my view is you haven't, and would be better paying the discount, but wait a bit to see what the others say. Don't however miss any deadlines for appealing or paying. The 1st offence was 28/03 and the 2nd was 03/04, I received the 1st fine letter after the 2nd offence had already happened. Here is the link for the bus gate on Google Maps, there is also a blue arrow pointing to the middle gate, maybe I can use that in my defence? >> https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5958749,-0....3312!8i6656 I don't think its fair to have to pay it twice considering I received the 1st letter when it was too late and had done it twice. |
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Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 16:00
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,915 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
It may not be fair, but it is legal. The only way you have any possibility of getting this PCN cancelled is to take them to adjudication, but would have to risk the full PCN amount of £130. It's a double-or-quits gamble and the odds are not in your favour, (in my view), but see what the others say.
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Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 22:37
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
You have two grounds to challenge:
1) The timeframe they quote for issuing a charge certificate is wrong, see Robert Atlas v London Borough of Barnet (case reference 2170053479) here: http://bit.ly/2KCRlnX 2) Both PCNs stem from the same mistake, see Mahabub Sumon v London Borough of Waltham Forest (case reference 2140263304) here: http://bit.ly/2I5Aw1V While you should win, we cannot guarantee success so you need to decide how far you want to take this. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 22 Apr 2019 - 12:00
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 16 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,450 |
It may not be fair, but it is legal. The only way you have any possibility of getting this PCN cancelled is to take them to adjudication, but would have to risk the full PCN amount of £130. It's a double-or-quits gamble and the odds are not in your favour, (in my view), but see what the others say. Are you sure I'll have to pay the full amount? on Thursday it will be 14 days, Ive already sent a letter but also, this is from the gov uk website about challenging PCN's and paying reduced amounts: "You have 28 days to challenge a PCN. If you do it within 14 days and your challenge is rejected, you may only have to pay 50% of the fine. Check the ticket - there are different rules for some types of PCN." https://www.gov.uk/parking-tickets/challenging-a-ticket *(either way I could pay before thursday and thats within the 14 day period as long as I can know before then if its accepted/rejected) |
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Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 18:41
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Are you sure I'll have to pay the full amount? on Thursday it will be 14 days, Ive already sent a letter but also, this is from the gov uk website about challenging PCN's and paying reduced amounts: Forget about the gov.uk website, it's written with the best of intentions but the people who author it are seldom legally qualified. If the council reject whatever it is that you put in your letter, they might re-offer the discount but they don't have to, it's entirely up to them. The only way you can be 100% sure you don't pay more than the 50% discounted penalty, is to pay the 50% discounted penalty within the discount period. But they do re-offer the discount most of the time even if they reject an initial challenge. What did you say in your letter to them? -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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