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Euro Parking "Left the Premises" Going to Court in May, Parking Within Time limits Claiming Driver was not On the Premises
Silverback2000
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 15:55
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Hi Everybody.
These are the details of a europarking PCN issued because the "driver left the premises"

[1]My Son Gave his old car to a needy car less aquaintance.
[2]the Aquaintance Did not change the keeper details as they thought that He may want the car back to sell it, but legally insured the car.
[3]a driver parked the car on Lidl Car park Newcdastle Under Lyme. 90 Minutes Parking Time. NO CAMERAS
[4]after 50 minutes the car was ticketed for the driver being "off the premises"
[5]My son works away a lot and by the time he opened the notice of parking charge the appeal deadline had passed.
[6]he has recieved solicitor warning letters (Gladstones) and this has elevated to county court summons for northampton small claims county court.
[7] My Son was in Singapore on the date of the parking incident
[8] My son was not an insured driver at the time

Action We have taken so far

[1] Set up specific anonymous email to deal with this issue
[2] Son Contacted Gladstones and explained that he was in Singapore and sent a photo of his boarding pass for Singapore outward flight but was unable to supply a photo of the return boarding pass that would show that he was either still in Singapore or somewhere in the air on his return flight
[3] gladstones said basically that was "tough" and he was responsible as the keeper because it had gone to court application
[4] have completed the necessary forms to reply to the court hearing
[5] Just to Frustrate Gladstones, (a) Have elected to attend court, as they had requested it to be dealt with by papers only
(b) have demanded a court local to the incident venue as A witness is a carer and needs to be near his patient instead of letting them force everything through Northampton
[6] have asked Gladstones How their client has decided that the driver Left the premises, they replied that the parking guy probably saw the driver park and leave the site (obviously not true)

What We have not done:

[1] informed the driver's name or admitted that My Son knows who was driving
[2] not yet completed witness statement as the court date is 20th May and needs to be filed 14 days before the hearing date
[3] not informed that we really do not want My Son to attend court as it will cost him more to attend and win than to pay up. as he will lose self employed work and have to travel either from London or europe to attend.

Our Defence. in the witness statement we were considering the following points
[1] We have used the car park since before Euro took over and never exceeded Lidl's original rules.#
[2] When Euro took over We assumed that all rules were the same as Euro never posted a CHANGE OF RULES notice when they took over or when they amended the rules to being ON THE PREMISES which is now common but was not originally displayed on any of their car park regulations
[3] there is photo proof of the vehicle parked there legally, 2 photos one earlier photo and one timed 16 minutes later, well within the 90 minute period
[4] there is no photo evidence that connects the driver with the car or shows the driver leaving the site or even of the driver off site at the same time as the photo proving that the car was legally parked on the site.
[5] the driver did NOT leave the premises
[6] the driver entered the lidl store and purchased items as usual then returned to the car, then hung around the car park talking on the phone to his wife who was due to be picked up from hospital and he could not leave the vehicle and keep the patient waiting, then re-entered the store as it was Friday and all the special items had come in the day before, so had a good browse through the goods
[7] was standing in the car park driveway talking to another customer remeniscing for about twenty minutes about the old night club on the building site next door when he saw someone messing around the car.
[8] the driver (carrying Lidl Purchases) approached the car to see the guy attaching the ticket. and pointed out that the car was well within the time limit. the guy replied that it was because the driver had left the site even though he was standing there talking to him and in fact if the final photo was taken two feet to the left, the driver would have been standing there smiling for the camera!
[9] if the parking guy sees a driver leaving the premises, why would he need to wait for almost an hour to issue a ticket as leaving the site is a finite action. he was just guessing and wrongly guessing because the driver spoke to him while he took the photo. In fact the car was there for 50 minutes and the first photo was only 16 minutes earlier. the parking guy probably just targeted the car because it was parked at the back of a half empty car park but the driver always parks where it is quieter and there are less pedestrians around for his dog to bark at.


Please advise us anti parking Gurus as we need to submit the witness statements
Thank you



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This post has been edited by Silverback2000: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:22
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post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 15:55
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ostell
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 16:29
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Has your son got ANY paperwork to show that he gave the car away?
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Jlc
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 16:45
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So what defence has been entered?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Silverback2000
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:27
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:29) *
Has your son got ANY paperwork to show that he gave the car away?


Thanks for quick reply Ostel But I accidentally hit Tab and posted early.
He doesn't have any paperwork but the car was insured for other drivers not him. there are many more details now

QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:45) *
So what defence has been entered?


Thank Jlc for quick reply but I hit tab by mistake and posted early; its now complete with more details
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Redivi
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 18:10
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Your defence appears to omit the obvious and complete defence that your son was neither the keeper nor the driver of the car

The Protection of Freedoms Act allows Euro to recover payment from the keeper if it doesn't know who was driving
POFA assumes this is the registered keeper unless he proves differently
Your son was the registered keeper but he wasn't the Keeper in accordance with POFA

If anything, phrases like "we have used the car park.." send the message that he was the driver

It also omits :

Euro's Notice to Keeper failed to meet the conditions of POFA and it has never had the right to recover payment from anyone other than the driver
Even if it had met the conditions of POFA, it cannot recover an amount greater than the original parking notice


A better witness statement would be :

I was not the driver of the vehicle that is the subject of the claim
I was at the time in Singapore

I had lent this car on (date) as a long term loan to a friend who keeps and insures it
I was no longer the keeper in accordance with POFA on the date of the alleged parking event

The claimant has never had any right to recover payment from me


This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 18:10
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Silverback2000
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 23:33
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 19:10) *
Your defence appears to omit the obvious and complete defence that your son was neither the keeper nor the driver of the car

The Protection of Freedoms Act allows Euro to recover payment from the keeper if it doesn't know who was driving
POFA assumes this is the registered keeper unless he proves differently
Your son was the registered keeper but he wasn't the Keeper in accordance with POFA

If anything, phrases like "we have used the car park.." send the message that he was the driver

It also omits :

Euro's Notice to Keeper failed to meet the conditions of POFA and it has never had the right to recover payment from anyone other than the driver
Even if it had met the conditions of POFA, it cannot recover an amount greater than the original parking notice


A better witness statement would be :

I was not the driver of the vehicle that is the subject of the claim
I was at the time in Singapore

I had lent this car on (date) as a long term loan to a friend who keeps and insures it
I was no longer the keeper in accordance with POFA on the date of the alleged parking event

The claimant has never had any right to recover payment from me



Thanks Redivi.
if we'd checked this site out earlier we would have definitely used that before it got court application.

is it Too late now. to use this? it would be great if my Son did not have to attend a court hearing because he works away all the time and the inconvenience would be expensive.
Thanks for the advice on wording, that was why I entered it, for feed back.
My Son definitely was in Singapore on the day and he does not know who was driving.
At this stage. Hearing 20th May. would we submit this as a witness statement, to Gladstones and the court, or as a letter to Europarking or all three.
My wife works at the local courts and the last euro case that came through, gladstones failed to turn up at all, so if my son sends this statement, they may pull out.
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