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County court letters - VCS LJLA
longbeard2
post Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 11:53
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Hi all,

I have tried to follow the new post guidelines advice but do let me know if there’s any extra information that will help.

I have been resisting a claim from VCS for stopping at LJLA last year. I have now received county court claim papers so would be grateful for some advice.

Here is a summary of events:
• Car was stopped at LJLA 2/4/2017. Picked up by cameras there. Can’t remember who was driver and it’s dark in the photos so can’t work out who it was.
• First received NTK dated Thursday 13/4/17 sent to my partner who is keeper. NTK was actually received 21/4/17 but in any case weekend 14-17th April was Easter weekend and the NTK itself states it will be assumed to be received the second working day after the date it was posted (13/4/17), which due to long bank holiday weekend is 19/4/17. My understanding is that POFA therefore does not apply.
• I appealed on my partners behalf using the myparkingcharge.co.uk portal
• VCS now saying that I identified myself as the driver in the appeal and are pursuing me on that basis.
• I don’t have any recollection of identifying myself as the driver but don’t think I got a copy of what I typed in. I have asked VCS for evidence of this, but they have not supplied it.
• In their reply to my appeal they said they were assuming I was the driver and I therefore had to prove otherwise, no mention me stating I was the driver.
• Essentially a few letters back and forth between me and VCS, BW legal dipped in and out at various stages as seems to be standard with VCS/LJLA and a few email from Jake Burgess in their litigation dept.
• They have sent me photographs which do not show me as the driver.
• Now received CC documents.

So could I get some advice on how best to respond:

CC has asked for a response in 14 days and defence within 28 days.
• Do I need to put a full written defence in or is this just a short statement saying I am going to defend myself?
• Are there any good templates for writing a defence?
• Has there been any recent court cases LJLA have won that have emboldened them to take this further?
• What is the process/likely timeline of events from here moving forward

I have a document with all my correspondence with VCS/BW legal, should I upload this or should share individually with other users?

There’s clearly a number of issues with their claim
• Driver identity
• Signage not a contract
• Byelaws issues
Any others I should be aware about?

Thanks for your help in advance

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post Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 11:53
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 13:54
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They'll send a cheque.
You could chase them, or just let the court know they havent paid

No, not paying will have any weight at all.
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Porcupine
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 21:29
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Some bizarre statements by the Judge here.

QUOTE
Judge then asked me to set out my case
Started with Byelaws, Judge quickly said they're not relevant as its private land and asked if I had any other points.


What difference does it make that it's private land, byelaws are in force on the land in question so are totally relevant.

QUOTE
These parking cases are now well established law


Obviously she thinks that Beavis ruling applies to all private parking cases, which is nonsense.


The Judge doesn't seem to have a good grasp of the situation and perhaps this could be politely pointed out to her at the new hearing.
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 22:48
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The Judge sounds biased, clueless and hopeless and I would be concerned, but not concerned enough to suggest a lay rep unless it's bargepole or Lamilad.

NO-ONE ELSE, FOR OBVIOUS REASONS EVERYONE HERE KNOWS ALREADY.

She has also handed them a chance to get their ducks in a row, which is shocking.

QUOTE
If the judge decided to adjourn there would be no award of costs (the £95).
There was in this case too, which was also at Liverpool so it must be normal for there:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017...2-years-of.html

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longbeard2
post Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 00:04
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Received a letter from VCS today which is essentially a statement in response to the judge adjourning and asking them to pay me £95 . It rambles on but in it they make two main points:
1/ they say they haven’t received my witness statement (I have evidence they have) and therefore any photographic evidence or anything at all that I said at the hearing is outside of my defense and an “ambush”

2/ specifically my defence did not include any reference to the signs not having planning permission and they say their representative should have pointed this out. (In my initial I defence I merely said the signs were inadequate
To form a contract, I didn’t specify on what grounds but I expanded on it in my WS to include the fact an illegal sign could not form a contract.

They don’t deny the signs were illegal at any point in the letter.

My plan is to reply and point out that I did send the WS and have evidence of that, therefore the lack of permission to show the
signs can form part of my defence. Can I also make a claim for any extra costs or is it too late for that?





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longbeard2
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 12:25
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CASE DISMISSED

Happy to say the Judge dismissed VCS case at the adjourned hearing today.
Also agreed a further half days costs should be awarded to me.

Recap:
Previous case adjourned as VCS arguments in reply to my WS were not prepared
-Judge awarded £95 costs
-Told VCS to address issue of signs planning permission, and also to identify exactly where the claimed offence took place, parking signs I would have passed etc

VCS have not paid me £95 within 14 days
VCS sent an updated WS - did not address the Judges points, instead claimed they had never seen my WS and did not know what the Judge was referring to. (This was news to me and their counsel did not raise it at the first hearing which we all agreed was odd if they didn't actually have it)

Today:
VCS counsel again claimed they did not have my WS
I had evidence it was sent to same email that Jake Burgess had previously corresponded to me from, and also evidence it arrived at the email address it was copied to.
Even if they hadn't received my WS they could still have responded directly to the Judges comments for detailed site maps. Judge clearly frustrated with VCS evasion, lack of detail and failure to pay ordered costs. Asked VCS counsel about of number of procedural things.
After that, he dismissed the case.
Awarded a further half day costs (I'm going back to work now) and my train ticket so £151 in total.
I'm very happy obviously.

Thanks to everyone on here for the resource and guidance. It seems the lack of planning permission for the signs entering LJLA rattled VCS a fair bit so worth looking at for any cases that like mine relate to prior May 2017.

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ManxRed
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 13:10
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Lovely!

Well done.


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 13:31
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Shame the judge didnt think theiur failure to follow a court order merited exceptional costs for unreasonable behaviour - we should hav epointed you towards it!

The 14 days to pay means theyre in breach of the first order, you oculd start enforcement prceedings against them. For example, if theyve ever given yo ubank account details to pay THEM, you can apply tot he court for the account to be frozen until they pay you!
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nigelbb
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 16:53
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Excellent! Well done & thanks for updating the thread.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Blue62
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:19
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Great news
I have posted my response to my third letter of claim to BW today and have highlighted the issue with the sign my case is also pre 2017.
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:28
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That is brilliant news! WELL DONE!

A case won v VCS at the Airport - albeit based on their own failure of evidence and apparently lying about not getting your WS and gambling on you not being able to prove it.
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