Minibus speed limits Options

[bestie1]

I've not been done for this but was wondering if the minibus limit on a single carriageway is still 50 if your driving one on a car not bus license?

The people I drive for are addiment that you can do 60.

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[nemo]

Provided it is a passenger vehicle which is not constructed or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers (excluding the driver) and does not have an unladen weight which exceeds 3.05 tonnes, then it is not subject to lower speed limits for its class (ie normal 'car' speed limits will apply).

[bestie1]

Thanks, it's a 17 seater and although I don't know it's unladen weight I'd say it's more than 3.05 tonnes. I'll let them know.

Thanks, it's a 17 seater and although I don't know it's unladen weight I'd say it's more than 3.05 tonnes. I'll let them know.

[nemo]

Thanks, it's a 17 seater..

In that case, it will be subject to special speed limits for its class:

* 60mph on a motorway (if the vehicle exceeds 12m in length), otherwise 70mph
* 60mph on a dual carriageway
* 50mph on a single carriageway

See Schedule 6 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

This post has been edited by nemo: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 - 08:41

[Microchips]

Couple of issues to be aware of here:

OP said, "if you're driving one on a car not bus license" and also said, "although I don't know it's unladen weight I'd say it's more than 3.05 tonnes"

Firstly, that was a typo by Nemo, I believe, which should have read 3.5 tonnes (i.e. 3500kg)

If the driver is driving on a car driving licence, i.e. either passed their test after Jan 1997 or lost "grandfather rights" due to being banned, then the driver will only have category "B" on their driving licence. This limits them to a minibus with a Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of 3500kg. If this is the case, the driver needs to have a look at the minibus's VIN plate - it will show the Vehicle Identification Number (a long string of letters and numbers) with four other numbers in a column underneath. The top one is the MAM and, for drivers who do not have licence category D1, must not be more than 3500kg.

More debatable is whether or not a non-D1 driver can be paid, i.e. drive a minibus as part of their employment. It seems definite that if the employee's duties specify driving, then the driver must have category D1. However, if it's only incidental and occasional, then they can probably get away with it, although there's been no case law precedent for this, so it could be advisable not to drive for an employer without D1. The OP says, "The people I drive for," so if he's doing this on a car-only licence, i.e. hasn't got D1, then he is almost certainly driving otherwise than in accordance with his licence unless it's incidental or occasional and not in his job description or otherwise expected of him as a condition of employment. It may be, however, that by "car licence" he is simply saying that he doesn't have a PSV licence.

All the minibus driving stuff is here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Drive...ions/DG_4022498

[nemo]

Firstly, that was a typo by Nemo, I believe, which should have read 3.5 tonnes (i.e. 3500kg)

I take it you didn't click on the link which would have taken you to the relevant legislation, then ?

[bestie1]

I drive for my society which is part of my university. The university approves all drivers, checks our licenses and trains us. I don't have an entitlement to drive a bus but the university has a permit which we are given, and as we're not paid it's fine (this is how I understand it, and from looking at microchips links that seems to be right).

I'm also assuming that as they book the buses they only book buses that we can legally drive, so under 3.5 tonnes. There is a dedicated person who sorts all driver/bus things.

Where can I easily find the MAM on a minibus?

I don't have a PSV licence but have a full car licsence held for 5 years and am over 21.

[P91]

If the driver is driving on a car driving licence, i.e. either passed their test after Jan 1997 or lost "grandfather rights" due to being banned, then the driver will only have category "B" on their driving licence. This limits them to a minibus with a Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of 3500kg. If this is the case, the driver needs to have a look at the minibus's VIN plate - it will show the Vehicle Identification Number (a long string of letters and numbers) with four other numbers in a column underneath. The top one is the MAM and, for drivers who do not have licence category D1, must not be more than 3500kg.

The 3500 kgs limit refers to goods vehicles, in the case of a PCV category B restricts the driver to no more than 8 seat including the driver. You're correct on the date as this is when D1 was no longer automatically issued with a car pass.

[bestie1]

The 3500 kgs limit refers to goods vehicles, in the case of a PCV category B restricts the driver to no more than 8 seat including the driver. You're correct on the date as this is when D1 was no longer automatically issued with a car pass.

I can definitely drive a 17 seater (so 16 passenger seats) on my license which is a B (under the permit thing). I was obviously told the wrong information about speeds by the uni people.

This post has been edited by bestie1: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 - 22:33

[southpaw82]

It wouldn't happen to be a "section 19 permit" would it?

[roythebus]

On h no, not the Section 19 permit! This is currently under review with the Confederation of Passenger Transport and the government with a view to rescinding the scheme due to widespread abuse of it and the associated safety concerns such as those the OP voices.

If the OP looks on the back of his licence, there's a little picture of what he can drive. To drive a 17 seat minibus he will need D1 or D1E. there's also some codes after that, one of which means "not used for hire and reward" (possibly code 119). This means NOBODY on the bus can pay ANYTHING towards the cost of the journey in any way, shape or form. the transport must be provided entirely free by the Uni or whatever. there is some case law on this matter which I'll post when I find it.

I can't see any minibus capable of carrying 17 people being under 3500kg maximum. 17 passengers plus driver at average weight of 60kg=1080kg for starters.

Remember too the driver MUST also use a tachograph and obey the drivers' hours regulations.

[stokie]

If the driver is driving on a car driving licence, i.e. either passed their test after Jan 1997 or lost "grandfather rights" due to being banned, then the driver will only have category "B" on their driving licence.

Slightly off topic but loosing grandfather rights? Is this a new thing as I had an enforced period of being off the road in 2003 but retained all categories of entitlement on restoration of licence after ban (no retest)

[bestie1]

I've been getting more and more confused so dug out the information book I got given when I did the universities internal test, and I'll post it here as I think it explains how I'm driving it (for social purposes). I've checked with the office and it is all legal for me to be driving the buses (lucky that as I've been doing it for over a year) and we do not need a tachograph although we are meant to keep to the driver's hours regulations.

I've copied and pasted the relevant sections. The full booklet can be found here.

"All drivers must be approved by the Head of Department or, in the case of the Students Union, the Union General Manager, to drive minibuses. Approval may only be given providing the following requirements are met.

- the driver is over 21 years of age
- the driver has a valid full driving licence. See Appendix 1 for detailed guidance on what constitutes a valid licence
- the driver has received adequate training and has been assessed as competent. See Appendix 2 for detailed requirements
- the driver has completed the approval form shown in Appendix 3. The completed form must be kept by the department. The form must be completed every 2 years."

"Driving Licence Requirements for Driving a Minibus

The legal requirements relating to driving licences changed on 1 January 1997 and form the basis of the requirements below. A distinction is made between the driving of minibuses for social purposes and the driving of minibuses in the course of employment. Anyone driving a minibus taking students on a field trip would be considered to be acting in the course of his or her employment. A student driving a minibus taking students to take part in sporting activities at another University would be considered as doing so for social purposes.

1 Driving a minibus in the course of employment

- the driver must be aged 21 or over and hold a full United Kingdom driving licence to drive a car and the licence must have been issued before 1 January 1997
OR
- the driver must be aged 21 or over and hold a full driving licence to drive a car issued by a member state of the European Community. The licence must have been issued before that state implemented the Second EC Directive on the Driving Licence (91/439/EEC). The licence must indicate that it is valid for driving minibuses with more than 8 passengers plus the driver
OR
- the driver must hold a full driving licence, issued either by the United Kingdom or by another member state of the European Community, to drive Passenger Carrying Vehicles Category D1


2 Driving a minibus for social purposes
The following requirements all apply
- the driver must provide his or her service on a voluntary basis
- the driver must be aged 21 or over
- the driver must have held a full driving licence, issued either by the United Kingdom or by another member state of the European Community, to drive a car (category B) for at least 2 years
- the minibus maximum weight must be no more than 3.5 tonnes"

"3 Requirements after 1 January 1998

Drivers must have successfully completed a training and assessment course for minibus drivers organised by the University Safety Office.
OR
Drivers must hold a full driving licence to drive Passenger Carrying Vehicles (Category D1)."