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Can Town councils enforce via DPE?
soggi
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 12:58
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Dorset is going to be split into two unitary authorities next spring. They seem totally unprepared and haven't even decided who will run the car parks the unitary or town councils. Should the new authorities have to re apply for CPE powers or will the old county council ones just change and can town councils if given the car parks use DPE powers?
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post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 12:58
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The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:16
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No (sort of), my understanding is to enforce via DPE you have to be a highway authority (so apart from London boroughs that's mostly counties, they can then permit a town council to enforce on their behalf of course, but its still on behalf of the HA.


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soggi
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:49
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Originally the car parks were done by the Borough and District councils and roads by the County. The town councils seem keen to keep the car parks as they need the cash but I was under the impression they had no powers.
It will be interesting to see if they do the change correctly and have all the paperwork and legal stuff in place on April 1st.
It will also be interesting to see how outstanding PCNs are dealt with after the change as DCC will no longer exist and won't be able to consider reps?
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cp8759
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:00
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QUOTE (soggi @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:49) *
Originally the car parks were done by the Borough and District councils and roads by the County. The town councils seem keen to keep the car parks as they need the cash but I was under the impression they had no powers.
It will be interesting to see if they do the change correctly and have all the paperwork and legal stuff in place on April 1st.
It will also be interesting to see how outstanding PCNs are dealt with after the change as DCC will no longer exist and won't be able to consider reps?

Is there any reason the unitary authority can't enforce contraventions in car parks owned by the town council? To enforce in a car park there just needs to be a valid RTRA designation order, I don't see how the owner of the car park, or the author of the order, would make any difference.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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DancingDad
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:17
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Town councils depend on whther or not classed as a metropolitan district council.
Schedule 8 of TMA 2004 still applies AFAIK.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/schedule/8
Section 92, minor definitions also refers
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soggi
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 15:09
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:00) *
QUOTE (soggi @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:49) *
Originally the car parks were done by the Borough and District councils and roads by the County. The town councils seem keen to keep the car parks as they need the cash but I was under the impression they had no powers.
It will be interesting to see if they do the change correctly and have all the paperwork and legal stuff in place on April 1st.
It will also be interesting to see how outstanding PCNs are dealt with after the change as DCC will no longer exist and won't be able to consider reps?

Is there any reason the unitary authority can't enforce contraventions in car parks owned by the town council? To enforce in a car park there just needs to be a valid RTRA designation order, I don't see how the owner of the car park, or the author of the order, would make any difference.


I guess they could but the current traffic orders refer to being enforced by bodies that will cease to exist. Using that logic a CEO from Lambeth could enforce car parks in Southwark which doesn't seem right.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 16:19
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No, the authority that takes over that area gets to carry on enforcing, its non sensical to suggest that every TRO would have to be rewritten. An authority can’t just start enforcing outside their area which is what your simile would suggest, that clearly can’t happen but isn’t analogous to what will be happening in Dorset.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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DastardlyDick
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 12:37
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With a bit of luck, they'll make the same mess St Albans Council made back in 2004, when the Police stopped enforcing, but the Council forgot to appoint someone to take over!

This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 08:26
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bama
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 14:01
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The mess there wnt way way further than that.
soggi, check ALL the paperwork, CPE applications, TROs, Notices of Making etc.


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Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 15:49
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The real danger here is that the Councils running car parks try to default on DPE, due to the changes, and reintroduce fixed penalty notices with the Mags Court being the "arbiter".

We had issues with this in Oxford and Wycombe IIRC.

They can set their own penalty --which is usually higher than DPE and don't have the strung out appeal process with an adjudicator looking over their shoulder. Streamlines the process and maximises the income stream ---what's not to like?

Why can't they do it? All the guidance said was the County Council, in applying for DPE, had to consider Off Street Car Parks--it was that wishy washy. Indeed if the County Council did not have a written commitment from the subordinate Councils,how can they be kept in check?

Mick
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ford poplar
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 02:22
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Each Unitary Authority should create its own Highway Authority resp for its own patch, to which Town Councils should defer. No further DPE application is required.
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