Contravention 07?, Parking on single yellow with no meter or signs - southwark council |
Contravention 07?, Parking on single yellow with no meter or signs - southwark council |
Fri, 22 Feb 2019 - 20:13
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
Hello all,
I do apologise if this contravention has been covered but I did a search and couldn’t find anything. I added contravention 07? Because I dont even know if it’s a 7 or a 4, looks like a 7. In any case would anyone be able to help me construct an appeal letter? Never done one of these before. The situation was that I was parked on a single yellow line. There were/are no pay meters or signs on the road with restriction information but there are bays which were added previously when they wanted to add restrictions - they didnt add any in the end. Tinypic is down at the mo so couldn’t use it. Used a different tool instead. Images: Outside https://imgur.com/RR4EOoN Front https://imgur.com/tXn4wFi Back https://imgur.com/MCldXiR Thank you in advance! |
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Fri, 22 Feb 2019 - 20:13
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 07:18
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
OK thanks. Just checked the Trafalgar Zone online and there are several roads leading in to the zone via old kent road without signs and obviously the road I parked on contains no signs. When I appeal do I need to mention that one point of the zone (Cobourg road) via old kent road has a CPZ sign but the road on the other end of the zone (Commercial Way) doesn’t? Or should I just mention the entry roads (Ossory Road, Peckham park road) that do not?
Secondly if I detail the route I took, can the council check CCTV to verify this or is it just my word and pics against theres? |
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 10:56
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
OK thanks. Just checked the Trafalgar Zone online and there are several roads leading in to the zone via old kent road without signs and obviously the road I parked on contains no signs. When I appeal do I need to mention that one point of the zone (Cobourg road) via old kent road has a CPZ sign but the road on the other end of the zone (Commercial Way) doesn’t? Or should I just mention the entry roads (Ossory Road, Peckham park road) that do not? Secondly if I detail the route I took, can the council check CCTV to verify this or is it just my word and pics against theres? You need to detail the route you actually took, it's not a guessing game and you can't just pick a road with no signs because it suits you. Remember giving false information in a representation is a criminal offence that can lead to a £5,000 fine. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 12:27
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
Thanks cp8759. The route I took had no signs however there were back routes taken so wanted to make sure there were no issues with this e.g going through an estate
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 12:51
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Gateway signs would only be at the entrance to the zone, so going through side streets would make no difference unless you went out of the zone and then back into it.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 13:19
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
OK. I came in from Old Kent Road where the zone begins and there were no signs on the road I used so I may have me a case.
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 13:25
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
OK. I came in from Old Kent Road where the zone begins and there were no signs on the road I used so I may have me a case. As I think I mentioned, you're going to want to take your own photos of your entrance point. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 14:05
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,263 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
OK. I came in from Old Kent Road where the zone begins and there were no signs on the road I used so I may have me a case. As I think I mentioned, you're going to want to take your own photos of your entrance point. He has. So, came in via Peckham Park Road and as Neil has pointed out, no signs: http://imgur.com/uGnEa8J http://imgur.com/h8AA1Sa Albeit the signs might be further down. (but gsv shows none) -------------------- |
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 15:02
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
Just looked through my extra pics and found this:
http://imgur.com/m8XdUy3 Does say loading bay on the sign but again no council signs. Just adding this here to give a holistic view. |
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 15:22
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
heres a map of the zone
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtBHPhdJdppVqlOm37M9TnM6ePFK You can see that old kent rd is the outer boundary so the signs on all the side roads are the relevant ones -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 15:57
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
heres a map of the zone https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtBHPhdJdppVqlOm37M9TnM6ePFK You can see that old kent rd is the outer boundary so the signs on all the side roads are the relevant ones Thank you. Appreciate the effort in looking this up. So should all roads leading in to the zone from old kent have signs? On the map you’ve added starting from after Albany Road these are the streets that do or do not have signs either at the beginning of the road or by the bays: Cobourg Road - yes Oakley place - yes (on bays) Trafalgar Av. - no Glengall Road - yes Ossory Road - no Malt street - yes Peckham Park Road - no Ethnard Road - yes Commercial way (end of the zone) - no Edit: Turns out I can request to see cctv footage so have requested it. This post has been edited by No_Parking: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 16:11 |
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 16:08
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
So can you follow a route from the boundary to where you parked without passing a sign if so you can win
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 16:19
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,263 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
Edit: Turns out I can request to see cctv footage so have requested it. Don't be daft. Where have you just read that from. -------------------- |
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 16:44
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
Edit: Turns out I can request to see cctv footage so have requested it. Don't be daft. Where have you just read that from. Yep I know, I was shocked to see it myself but I’m curious by nature so thought why not. It would be interesting to see if they provide anything which I doubt they will. It’s actually a link on their website: http://southwarkpcns.apcoa.com Don’t ask how I managed to get here, I just did. |
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 16:56
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Edit: Turns out I can request to see cctv footage so have requested it. Don't be daft. Where have you just read that from. Yep I know, I was shocked to see it myself but I’m curious by nature so thought why not. It would be interesting to see if they provide anything which I doubt they will. It’s actually a link on their website: http://southwarkpcns.apcoa.com Don’t ask how I managed to get here, I just did. CCTV cannot now be used for parking contraventions of this sort so no there will not be any and no you are not entitled to see it and no it would not raise a winning appeal point -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 17:12
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
Any suggestions on how to word the appeal? Anything I should/should not include other than my own photos
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 17:29
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,263 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
Yep I know, I was shocked to see it myself but I’m curious by nature so thought why not. It would be interesting to see if they provide anything which I doubt they will. It’s actually a link on their website: http://southwarkpcns.apcoa.com Don’t ask how I managed to get here, I just did. You might recall we asked for council pics. Now you've finally found where to look where are they? -------------------- |
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 18:07
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
Hadn’t forgotten, just needed to get myself to a desktop!
https://imgur.com/zZ2eRYW https://imgur.com/VJQOUiU https://imgur.com/0s7aTMs https://imgur.com/iDWWqBW https://imgur.com/zZ2eRYW Came back to something stuck on my car other than the ticket plus my wing mirror bent backwards. Nothing surprising for the area... |
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 19:43
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
CCTV cannot now be used for parking contraventions of this sort so no there will not be any and no you are not entitled to see it and no it would not raise a winning appeal point CCTV cannot be used as the basis to issue a PCN, that doesn't mean it can't be used at all in adjudication proceedings. The question No_Parking asked was "Secondly if I detail the route I took, can the council check CCTV to verify this or is it just my word and pics against theres?", the answer to this is yes they can (Southwark is full of CCTV cameras), but it's unlikely they would. Legally, if No_Parking says "I took such and such a route" and the council turn up at the tribunal with CCTV footage saying "no you didn't, look here's a video showing you took this other route instead", the tribunal can receive the footage in evidence because para 10(3)(b) of the schedule to the appeal regs says: the adjudicator may receive evidence of any fact which appears to him to be relevant notwithstanding that such evidence would be inadmissible in proceedings before a court of law. However, IMO Southwark wouldn't in a million years trawl through CCTV trying to disprove No_Parking's version of events because it would be a wholly disproportionate effort. Any suggestions on how to word the appeal? Anything I should/should not include other than my own photos All you really need to say is that you entered the zone via Peckham Park Road, and having checked there are no CPZ signs so you would have had no indication of what the restricted hours were. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 20:30
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 22 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,581 |
cp8759 really appreciate your and everyones response.
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