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PCN 30 - 4 hours/no return within 2 hours
gpp
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 22:40
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Hi everyone,

I'm posting regarding 2 PCNs I received as I left my car parked for two days in an area where the maximum stay is 4 hours with 2 hours no return (in Leeds).
It was the first time I parked there and I did not notice the sign. I usually park in a nearby area where there are no restrictions.
I was wondering if there are any chances to appeal. (for example, how do they know I did not leave in between the 4 hours for those 2 hours. In the PCN's evidence there are photos of my wheels but at the time of the PCN only)
Or how do you suggest to proceed with the city council? (maybe asking to cancel one of the two)

Thanks for your time!
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post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 22:40
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cp8759
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 01:20
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They will have noted the valve positions of the tyres to confirm whether the car had moved.

Upload the PCN in full, both sides, there's a known flaw on Leeds PCNs.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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gpp
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 12:04
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 01:20) *
They will have noted the valve positions of the tyres to confirm whether the car had moved.

Upload the PCN in full, both sides, there's a known flaw on Leeds PCNs.


Here are the PCN in full.

PCN-Front
PCN-Back


Thanks
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cp8759
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 14:25
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The PCN asserts that if the penalty isn't paid or challenged at the NtO stage, the council will increase the charge by 50% and issue a charge certificate, so the normal will/may logic applies. However the is no requirement to mention either the increase charge or charge certificates on the PCN, so the tribunal could rule against you on this point.

Post the council pics, but if all is in order then paying the first one at the discount and asking for the 2nd one to be cancelled might be the best approach.

You might also want to check the traffic regulation order for the bay.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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hcandersen
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 18:59
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The PCNs were issued by different CEOs and obs were casual i.e. non-continuous obs over 4 hours.

Accepting what we know i.e. you were stationary for 2+days, then continuous contravention is probably all you've got, contravention wise.
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gpp
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 13:24
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 14:25) *
The PCN asserts that if the penalty isn't paid or challenged at the NtO stage, the council will increase the charge by 50% and issue a charge certificate, so the normal will/may logic applies. However the is no requirement to mention either the increase charge or charge certificates on the PCN, so the tribunal could rule against you on this point.

Post the council pics, but if all is in order then paying the first one at the discount and asking for the 2nd one to be cancelled might be the best approach.

You might also want to check the traffic regulation order for the bay.


Thanks for your reply.
Here are the pics.

PCN1-pics
PCN2-pics
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 15:05
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 14:25) *
The PCN asserts that if the penalty isn't paid or challenged at the NtO stage, the council will increase the charge by 50% and issue a charge certificate, so the normal will/may logic applies. However the is no requirement to mention either the increase charge or charge certificates on the PCN, so the tribunal could rule against you on this point.

Post the council pics, but if all is in order then paying the first one at the discount and asking for the 2nd one to be cancelled might be the best approach.

You might also want to check the traffic regulation order for the bay.



Remember a PI can occur when they c*ck-up the timing of set procedures:-

(5) In these Regulations “procedural impropriety” means a failure by the enforcement authority to observe any requirement imposed on it by the 2004 Act, by the General Regulations or by these Regulations in relation to the imposition or recovery of a penalty charge or other sum and includes in particular—

(a)the taking of any step, whether or not involving the service of any document, otherwise than—

(i)in accordance with the conditions subject to which; or

(ii)at the time or during the period when,

it is authorised or required by the General Regulations or these Regulations to be taken
; and

(b)in a case where an enforcement authority is seeking to recover an unpaid charge, the purported service of a charge certificate under regulation 21 of the General Regulations before the enforcement authority is authorised to serve it by those Regulations.

By mentioning the Charge Certificate or actions leading to a CC in the PCN they c*ck-up procedural timings so that in itself is a PI---taking a step long long before the Regulations say it can be taken or mentioned.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 15:07
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