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Bristol could become UK’s first city to ban diesel cars
stamfordman
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 14:13
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Item in Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oc...ban-diesel-cars

Bristol could become the UK’s first city to introduce a ban on diesel vehicles to boost air quality.

The vehicles will be prohibited from entering a central area of the city between 7am and 3pm every day under proposals by Bristol city council.

A wider charging zone for commercial vehicles such as buses, taxis, vans and lorries that do not meet certain emissions standards is part of the measures that could be implemented by March 2021.

There is also a plan to launch a car scrappage scheme to help diesel car owners buy an alternative vehicle.
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post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 14:13
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Fredd
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 15:26
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Perhaps I won't scrap my petrol-guzzling old A4 just yet, then - there could be desperate diesel-owning Bristolians who'd find it very attractive soon. rolleyes.gif


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DancingDad
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 15:45
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Yet another.
"“These ambitious plans demonstrate our commitment to tackling air pollution so we meet legal limits within the shortest time, without disproportionally affecting citizens on lower incomes, which would happen with a blanket approach to charging vehicles."
Uhm.... it is likely to be those on lower incomes who own older diesels and who cannot afford to replace them.
Not too mention that the ban is for the city centre where, if it follows many other cities outside London, has low residential population density. Those who work there can be secure in the knowledge that the air quality is better then where they live, sleep, bring up the kids etc.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 16:21
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If you can't take diesels into town then the poorer inner city areas will get relief too. Also, most people in poor inner city areas don't own cars.
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DancingDad
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 21:14
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 16:21) *
If you can't take diesels into town then the poorer inner city areas will get relief too. Also, most people in poor inner city areas don't own cars.


Oh I fully accept there is likely to be a knock on effect.
Just not sure what.
At the moment, schemes I am seeing seem to be concerned with being able to show that the council have taken positive action and will be able to show an improvement in air quality within the city centre.

My dislike is that the area chosen is not representative of the number of people affected and that the knock on effects may well make others worse off, not only financially but also with their air quality.

Take Birmingham where a charging scheme is due to be introduced.
Basically a ring round the city centre and only vehicles that match London's ULEZ limits can enter without paying.
Within the zone are relatively low numbers of residential areas, plenty of shops, offices, businesses of all descriptions.
The population during working hours will be high and it can certainly be argued that those are being protected.
At night, population drops dramatically, you only have to look at traffic on main routes in and out to know that.
So again, it can certainly be argued that with more polluting cars being banned, those routes in and out will have improved air quality.
The proposals are also having an effect at the moment, small, economic diesels that are not Euro6 are being ignored over petrol burners.
So far so good and must be applauded if we care about air quality.
But....
Road planning in the 60s/70s led to the creation of links like Spaghetti Junction, the Queensway Tunnels, Aston Expressway, all designed and built to get traffic frm the M6 into the city and the outskirts relatively painlessly.... may not work too well at times but that is how the road network is laid out.
If I want to visit my sister who lives on the other side of the city, I simply go straight through, A38M, Tunnels and out on the Bristol Road.
If I am in an older diesel, the choice will be pay or go around.
Choice of inner city ring roads which are already crowded and go through heavily populated residential areas.
Or outer ring roads, again through dense population areas but less crowded...further though so use more fuel.
Or motorways, M6 to M42 or M6 to M5 and then backtrack towards Birmingham.... Okay, a lot of the journey through countryside but I would be using 5 times as much fuel as I would by going straight through, how's that saving the planet?
Or I may still go straight through and pay the charge. Another tax on the motorist, swell council coffers and s0d it, the city centre can still have my NOx.
Then multiply those sort of choices by the thousands of journeys that will be restricted from the direct and simplest route and the impact that will have elsewhere.

I accept that it will get many older diesels off the road and as such improve air quality overall but a lot of them will be falling off the road anyway in the timescales.
In the meantime, we will have heavier pollution in residential areas, more congestion in those areas hence more pollution again and a city council pointing to lower pollution levels in the centre and saying what good fellow we are.

Makes me spit.... sorry, rant over.



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The Rookie
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 08:10
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The irony is that the latest EU6 cars with a DPF (Diesel and some Direct Injection gasoline) have cleaner exhausts than the intake air in polluted cities, so while banning older and dirtier cars may make sense, banning the newest ones is counter productive.


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Korting
post Tue, 12 Nov 2019 - 21:56
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What then happens to buses, taxis and lorry's? They use diesel and buses and lorry's are far heavier polluters than cars.

If you ban the buses then how do people get to work? If you ban the lorry's how do you get the goods into the shops?

How do you service the city? Most servicing is carried out by people driving vans and most of those are diesel.

Perhaps a Bristolian civil servant would like to explain.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 15:18
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I guess you didn’t get round to reading the article starting with the title?
QUOTE
Bristol could become UK’s first city to ban diesel cars

Some emphasis for you.


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stamfordman
post Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 15:32
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Air pollution nanoparticles linked to brain cancer for first time
Exclusive: tiny particles produced by motor traffic can invade the brain and carry carcinogens

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/201...in-new-research
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Ocelot
post Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 15:36
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 08:10) *
The irony is that the latest EU6 cars with a DPF (Diesel and some Direct Injection gasoline) have cleaner exhausts than the intake air in polluted cities, so while banning older and dirtier cars may make sense, banning the newest ones is counter productive.


Maybe they should encourage such cars if the exhaust is effectively cleaning the air? smile.gif
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Richy_m_99
post Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 16:22
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 16:18) *
I guess you didn’t get round to reading the article starting with the title?
QUOTE
Bristol could become UK’s first city to ban diesel cars

Some emphasis for you.


Some more information for you. Lorries, taxis and buses are also included in the overall scheme which includes a charging zone outside the central zone of the ban. Charging buses £100 to enter the zone is ludicrous if you ask me. So much for not affecting the poorer members of society. Just who exactly usually catches a bus?



From the BBC site. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-50292596

Which vehicles will it affect?

Diesel powered lorries, vans, buses and taxis which pay to enter the wider clean air zone will also be allowed in the central zone.

Taxis and vans will pay a daily charge of £9 and buses and HGVs £100.

Private diesel cars will not be charged to enter the wider clean air zone.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 14 Nov 2019 - 04:03
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Thanks, poor reporting from the BBC in the first article.

As you say charging buses £100 a day is stupid
1/ They will still be there, any reduction in Bus numbers will come progressively
2/ The only way to offset it is by charging higher fairs which as you note is a regressive taxation.

I guess they are hoping for a swap to CNG/LPG or Electric.....


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