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NIP received late. With a bit of a twist
crizdee
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 06:16
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Hello,

I received the NIP on the 12th May 2018
Nip dated 11th May 2018
Postage mark 11th May 2018

Date of offence 18th March 2018

NIP was not sent to the address on the V5C ?
I have 2 addresses and the car is registered at other address and has been for several years.
I’m guessing the police have used the address of the insurance on the car.

Surrey police M25 J10-J11 2am flashed at 87mph in a 70

.........................................................

What I think I should do so far...
Return NIP confirming I’m the driver and owner.

Do I argue the dates at this stage or is that later when they write to prosecute

Do I mention to them that the address is not the one on the V5C? Is that likely to cause complications and questions as to why the insurance and V5C are different?

I have 3 vehicles and sometimes either one of them can be stored at either address.


Thanks in advance for any help and guidance

Chris

This post has been edited by crizdee: Tue, 15 May 2018 - 06:40
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post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 06:16
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The Rookie
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 06:32
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First step is to check 100% that the V5C is correct, the timing is out of kilter with the normal process which suggests it was flagged for special attention at some stage, possibly they got a reply back to the first NIP and made extra enquiries, or possibly the data flagged up as being 'wrong'.

Is this a camera offence or otherwise? The alleged offence being?

Regardless of anything else you still have to respond to the S172 request to identify the driver, failing to do so is a separate offence and usually more serious than the original offence that triggered the NIP.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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crizdee
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 06:50
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 07:32) *
First step is to check 100% that the V5C is correct, the timing is out of kilter with the normal process which suggests it was flagged for special attention at some stage, possibly they got a reply back to the first NIP and made extra enquiries, or possibly the data flagged up as being 'wrong'.

Is this a camera offence or otherwise? The alleged offence being?

Regardless of anything else you still have to respond to the S172 request to identify the driver, failing to do so is a separate offence and usually more serious than the original offence that triggered the NIP.


Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I’m quite sure this is the first NIP. If it wasn’t the first wouldn’t it say follow up or we’ve written previously and got no reply etc.

Owned car 6 years was registered at family home till about 2 years ago when I transferred to my flat.

Other car related stuff comes to my registered address as per V5C so this is odd they used the insurance address to contact me and not the DVLA V5C registered address.


Chris

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Jlc
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 07:30
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QUOTE (crizdee @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 07:50) *
If it wasn’t the first wouldn’t it say follow up or we’ve written previously and got no reply etc.

No, unfortunately not.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 08:01
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QUOTE (crizdee @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 07:50) *
this is odd they used the insurance address to contact me and not the DVLA V5C registered address.

Exactly....

The law requires the NIP is served on the RK or the Driver (who they wouldn't know normally) within 14 days, its a simple matter to check the database and RK details and send it out, so the fact it's come to your other address suggests that either
1/ They got a reply back to the first NIP and have used some other means (such as insurance) to track your other address
2/ There was something about the address that raised a concern, but even then the law requires a NIP to the RK address.

Check your V5cis the address 100% correct (it may have got misposted), it may also be worth ringing the DVLA to confirm they have the correct address for the car, its not totally unknown for them to get changed by error or malice.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 07:32) *
Is this a camera offence or otherwise? The alleged offence being?

And?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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NewJudge
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 12:08
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Are you certain that no NIP was delivered to the address on the V5C or is it just an assumption? Do you have regular and frequent access to the mail there?
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bama
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 20:23
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double check the V5C
then check it again
then report back here with the results.

this could be an IT issue (bug) revealed by the two different addresses and the system then erroneously picking the insurance address instead of the DVLA one.
If so they probably don't want the bug revealed - they may not know about it, thern again it may well be a known problem.
revelaing it as a known bug could cause a flurry of people to start using two addresses.


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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peterguk
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 20:28
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QUOTE (bama @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 21:23) *
this could be an IT issue (bug) revealed by the two different addresses and the system then erroneously picking the insurance address instead of the DVLA one.
If so they probably don't want the bug revealed - they may not know about it, thern again it may well be a known problem.
revelaing it as a known bug could cause a flurry of people to start using two addresses.


AFAIK, DVLA will only hold one address for the VRM concerned, which presumably will be the one on the V5C, and the one obtained by the police.

No one knows whether this was the first NIP or second, so wouldn't it be better to call and clarify before getting into tinfoil hats and unknown IT bugs?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Wed, 16 May 2018 - 20:30


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The Rookie
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 04:32
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The timing already suggests it’s a second NIP anyway, but what we don’t yet know is the basis for the NIP which may be kind of crucial.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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crizdee
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 08:49
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Hello All,

Thanks for all the comments and thoughts.

I have now received a NIP at the flat address where the car is registered ( As well as the one at the insurance address)

This NIP does have different wording... To date no driver details have been received regarding the notice ........

So looks like they have sent a previous NIP and i didn't receive it.

Guess i'll never know where the original was addressed to. anyway looks like there's no get out of jail card on this occasion!

Regards Chris
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crizdee
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:00
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Hi,

Ive tried to login to their surreyPAS (Public access site) to enter the details on the NIP/s

The NIP i received at the flat.. the pin provided didn't work so i couldn't login with that PIN but when i tried with the PIN provided on the notice sent to my house address it worked.

The website has my house address down which is not my address on the V5C. Is it ok for them to use my insurance details for the address? (Or wherever they got my home address from!)

The website says notice sent on the 26th March, (Offense date 19th March) but i didn't see the first notice or know which address it was sent to.

Do i fill in the form or is this all too confusing and should i appeal or something?


Chris
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122basy
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:24
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QUOTE (crizdee @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 14:00) *
Hi,

Ive tried to login to their surreyPAS (Public access site) to enter the details on the NIP/s

The NIP i received at the flat.. the pin provided didn't work so i couldn't login with that PIN but when i tried with the PIN provided on the notice sent to my house address it worked.

The website has my house address down which is not my address on the V5C. Is it ok for them to use my insurance details for the address? (Or wherever they got my home address from!)

The website says notice sent on the 26th March, (Offense date 19th March) but i didn't see the first notice or know which address it was sent to.

Do i fill in the form or is this all too confusing and should i appeal or something?


Chris

Yes.
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cp8759
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:30
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QUOTE (crizdee @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 14:00) *
Hi,

Ive tried to login to their surreyPAS (Public access site) to enter the details on the NIP/s

The NIP i received at the flat.. the pin provided didn't work so i couldn't login with that PIN but when i tried with the PIN provided on the notice sent to my house address it worked.

The website has my house address down which is not my address on the V5C. Is it ok for them to use my insurance details for the address? (Or wherever they got my home address from!)

The website says notice sent on the 26th March, (Offense date 19th March) but i didn't see the first notice or know which address it was sent to.

Do i fill in the form or is this all too confusing and should i appeal or something?


Chris

You cannot appeal a NIP, there's nothing to appeal. You have a duty to respond to the section 172 notice no matter what, and you commit a separate and more serious offence if you fail to do so. The overwhelming likelihood is that a NIP was sent to the RK address, for whatever reason (maybe it was lost in the post) they didn't get a reply, so they sent one to the insurance address instead. If you write back asking whether a NIP was served in time at the V5C address, they might interpret that as a challenge in which case you'd forfeit any chance of a course / fixed penalty and the matter will be referred straight to court.

You could call and ask them if a NIP was sent to the V5C address within 14 days, but you have to answer the section 172 request regardless.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:36


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 16:30
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 09:01) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 07:32) *
Is this a camera offence or otherwise? The alleged offence being?

And?

Still needs an answer really......some offences don’t need a NIP making the whole thread pointless if it’s one of them.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Jlc
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 16:36
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:30) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 09:01) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 07:32) *
Is this a camera offence or otherwise? The alleged offence being?

And?

Still needs an answer really......some offences don’t need a NIP making the whole thread pointless if it’s one of them.

Seems to be speeding? 'flashed at 87mph in a 70'...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:05
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Indeed, not sure how I missed that.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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