PCN Sent to wrong address, bailiffs find me and demand £513, No Left Turn offence in Ealing January 2019, received note 14/05/2020. Options

[Rob J]

Hello all,

Quick summary of my case:

• No left-turn performed in ealing 13/01/2019. Don't know who was driving, my wife or I and don't know if we actually infringed (no proof given to me).
• Yesterday, 14/05/2020, recevied a letter from Newlyn saying response required - £513 due for UNPAID road traffic.
• Yesterday, 14/05/2020, called Newlyn to ask what this was about. Didn't give personal details other than confirming the address they had sent the letter to and my email to send further documents. The extra document is a "warrant of control - unpaid penalty charge" issued by the enforcement agent 29/05/2019.
• I did not receive PCN or previous documents because the address on the V5 was a previous address. We moved from V5 registered address on 20/05/2016, to another flat and moved from there 31/07/2016 and then finally moved to current address 12/12/2016.

Documents can be found here. Link contains 1 image and 2 pdf's. Vehicle is a 2008 Fiat Panda 1.1 active.

A little bit of personal context so hopefully you can empathise a little with me. Yes I understand that it is my responsibilty to change V5 address, please don't reply telling me off, I'm fully aware already. We have just (literally) had a baby and my wife is self-employed so only receives statutory maternity leave and is a sports coach so no work for her at the moment. I have been starting a business for the past 2 years on no salary, although I started to take a very small salary in January as a contract started but that contract was defered because of COVID-19 and is possibly going to be cancelled. In short I cannot pay £513 or a payment plan unless I consider selling the vehicle.

Any advice on what should be my next step? This is a first for me.

Thank you. Rob.

This post has been edited by Rob J: Fri, 15 May 2020 - 07:37

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[Neil B]

So a quick google search says a warrant expires after 1 year which as Neil B said is actually in 10 days (28/05/2020). But what does that mean I should do?

No; you have to use the correct starting point to count from. Taking of goods regs 2013 says that's service of the EN.

What should you do? Not sure but with bailiffs currently unable to act and them already having charged you for a visit, perhaps
the answer is to see what they do?

Meantime, re filing of an OOT ? We don't currently know how councils are viewing these. Do they even have staff available with
time to file an objection, no matter how clear your 'fault' might be? Perhaps they'll prefer to just clear up outstanding matters
on their books, given the current emergency.
I don't know; just applying common sense.

[Rob J]

UPDATE:

• OOT was filed about a month ago, confirmation email received from TEC. No response still. Do they have a time limit set by law? If not any tips on next steps?
• Today the warrant expired and now they don't have a valid warrant. They have already acted dubiously with the addresses so a valid warrant may not stop Newlyn. Any advice?

This post has been edited by Rob J: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 - 13:47

[Neil B]

UPDATE:

• OOT was filed about a month ago, confirmation email received from TEC. No response still. Do they have a time limit set by law? If not any tips on next steps?
• Today the warrant expired and now they don't have a valid warrant. They have already acted dubiously with the addresses so a valid warrant may not stop Newlyn. Any advice?

Ealing have 19 working days to object to your OOT from when they receive the details from TEC; so, around about now.
Just ask TEC the current position.

Not sure why you think the warrant expired today; I gave you the starting point for counting the 12 months.

If Ealing manage to renew the warrant (and that is very arguable whether they even can) then surely Newlyn would have to
start the process again and serve a new NoE on you, i.e. without the £235 enforcement fee.
Problem is nobody is policing these things.

[Rob J]

Thanks Neil B, I've just got a response from TEC and it isn't great news:

"Good morning,

Further to your email, I can confirm that your Out of Time application was processed by the court on 27th May. Unfortunately, Ealing Council (on 4th July) did not accept your reasons for late filing of your application, and so we referred this case to a Court Officer for a review. They also refused on the same date. A letter has been sent to you explaining your options – 1. Either appeal to a Judge or Legal Advisor (with possible associated fees); or 2. Pay Ealing Council.

We hope this provides some clarity."

I'm contemplating my options seeing as I never received a NoE and that according to the agent they sent the NoE over a year ago. Is there any reason to go through a complaints process seeing as Newlyn have managed to get my address right initially yet not actually send me that letter and then 'wrong' for the supposed NoE that I still haven't seen proof of, or even a copy?

[Neil B]

A few things.

we issued a Notice of Enforcement to ## (previous address) on 4 June 2019.

As I said earlier, if they want to count that NoE as 'served' to justify subsequently imposing a further
fee of £235 on you, then the warrant expired on 3rd June 2020.

But I'm a bit nervous about it; I wonder what they'll do?

That Ealing objection appears way too late according to my counting? I've seen TEC do this before. Why set a deadline
if you're not going to be strict about it? (but I can also never remember where that '19 working days' is written?

Hopefully you'll get a copy of that objection and we can look at it further.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 10:44

[hcandersen]

I'm contemplating my options seeing as I never received a NoE and that according to the agent they sent the NoE over a year ago.

Your are confusing separate issues.

1. The process up to and including authority for the warrant to be drawn up;
3. The enforcement of the warrant.

TEC's role deals with 1. As I wrote initially, you stood no chance with an OOT. Frankly, even without an objection from Ealing TEC should have refused your application.

As regards 1, you can of course apply to have this reviewed. Normally this would cost a minimum of £100.

So, what about stage 2?

My timeline from your posts shows:

28 May 2019 - Ealing Council issue warrant in your name at address A, an address you had vacated 3 years earlier and at which you did not reside;

4 June 2019 - through its agents the council serve a Notice of Enforcement on address A;

11 Dec. 2019 - council's agents attend property A

On or around Jan. 2020, the enforcement agents became aware that the address A was no longer occupied by you;

Between Jan. and 14 May - (address A) is the address at which the local authority and Newlyn PLC have written to you until recently

14 May 2020 - you were served at current address with a(nother) Notice of Enforcement demanding £513 comprising: surcharged penalty -£195; court registration fee - £8; Compliance Fee - £75; Enforcement Fee - £235.

IMO, it's not looking good for Newlyn or the council as regards recovering the Enforcement Fee.

[Bailiff Advice]

That Ealing objection appears way too late according to my counting? I've seen TEC do this before. Why set a deadline
if you're not going to be strict about it? (but I can also never remember where that '19 working days' is written?

Hopefully you'll get a copy of that objection and we can look at it further.

My thoughts entirely.

If the LA fail to respond within '19 working days', then on day 20, the Out of Time application must be accepted by default.

A copy of the LA statement outlining the grounds for rejecting the application SHOULD be sent to the OP but as we know.....many councils fail to provide a copy. In this particular case, if a copy if not forthcoming in the next few days, the OP should approach TEC to request a copy.

You have two choices: to pay* or apply to the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) for leave to file an out-of-time (OOT) statutory declaration (SD) forms PE2 and PE3 which are downloadable from HMCTS website.

Your SD must be witnessed before submission either at a County Court or by a solicitor.

With COVID restrictions in place, TEC are not currently requiring that forms PE2 and PE3 are witnessed (by a court or solicitor). They need to be 'signed' in the same way as forms TE7 and TE9.

This post has been edited by Bailiff Advice: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 23:25

[hcandersen]

How does this help the OP?

IMO, the 'processed' date is not necessarily the same as the date the authority were informed;
If there is a time limit, then it could only apply from that date;
In any event, does the court have the power to extend any period?
The email is not formal notice of the court's decision.

Their OOT has been refused. Therefore, as far as part 1 is concerned, they must act within the prescribed period once they receive TEC's written decision.

As regards part 2, IMO nothing has changed and the OP may pursue this with the council in parallel...but not bilaterally with the enforcement agents, always keep the council in the loop.

[Rob J]

Once I receive the letter from TEC I will upload the scan. If I don't recieve a letter from the LA before next Monday I will also be in touch. Would have been good to have known about the need to not have the forms witnessed because I paid £10 for a solicitor to witness the 2 documents.

Anyone have a link to the document that talks about that 19 days rule?

[Bailiff Advice]

The argument as to whether or not the warrant has expired is an interesting one.

In light of COVID, the government placed a restriction on bailiff enforcement at the end of April stopping visits being made to domestic premises or removing goods located on a highway. That restriction is still in place. Bailiff companies are still able to work. Notices can be send out and payment arrangements can be made.

The position with warrants is that usually, a warrant expires 12 months from the date that a Notice of Enforcement is issued. With the suspension of personal visits, the government amended regs so that warrants would be automatically extended by a further 12 months.

This post has been edited by Bailiff Advice: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 09:41

[Rob J]

Hey hcanderson, Bailiff Advice and Neil B,

Thanks for your responses earlier and here is the letter from TEC that you all requested: https://www.evernote.com/l/ATj02sr7xHZLULmd...0U1nJo8P0gusgQ/

Unfortunately still no letter from Ealing Council.

This post has been edited by Rob J: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 - 07:03

[cp8759]

Hey hcanderson, Bailiff Advice and Neil B,

Thanks for your responses earlier and here is the letter from TEC that you all requested: https://www.evernote.com/l/ATiViZB9ZTlE-ZB_...Anyik4JW6o_eMQ/

Unfortunately still no letter from Ealing Council.

That link doesn't work.

[Rob J]

Yep thanks. Edited it to this one:
https://www.evernote.com/l/ATj02sr7xHZLULmd...0U1nJo8P0gusgQ/

[hcandersen]

OP, TEC's letter is dated 4 July.

You posted it here on 14th.

If you wish to pursue the matter then you must submit your N244 to TEC no later than 21 July.

You gave no argument on this point other than a prospective one regarding Ealing's objection which apparently you have still not obtained.

You must get their objection.

Once Ealing received TEC's letter they would have instructed the enforcement agents to recommence action which leaves you exposed.