URGENT - IN10 - No insurance as insurance company cancelled without my knowledge, No Insurance Prosecution Options

[Bigbluevan]

Hi, I'll try and keep this brief as I'm desperate for advice to make a quick decision.

My husband was pulled over end of August in his van for no insurance. We explained our insurance rolls over monthly and we haven't made any changes etc. but upon checking the database it said uninsured. Their central unit spoke to our insurance provider who said they tried to contact us regarding something and then cancelled it in mid June. The last payment we could find on our DD was June. We got insurance on the spot and the officers said we could leave with our van as it seemed like a genuine mistake and he actually said to us 'if they said they contacted you, tell them to prove it' so we thought it would be simple.

We then received a letter with 6 points and a fine as the conditional offer but we sent a letter appealing the prosecution. Basically when we spoke to the insurance company Swinton (never again!) they said they tried to call on the 29/30th May but couldn't confirm if they left a vm. We recall no phone calls but we were also in Turkey at this time. They then say they sent an email asking us to contact them ... again, a search of our emails shows nothing but the original email when we started the policy. We asked for the email trail to show it was sent and all they have provided is a copy of the email which says we are trying to contact you and if you don't contact by x date then your policy will be cancelled. They haven't provided the email trail like we asked for to prove they sent it.

Research tells me this is a strict liability offence and the fact we didn't intend to or weren't aware isn't relevant to guilt. An honest mistake doesn't make a defence. My question is would the fact the insurance company didn't send a letter to inform us they have cancelled the insurance be classed as special reasons. They claim they tried to make contact to discuss and yes the alleged email threatened a cancellation by a certain date, but at no point do they allege they actually sent anything to confirm the cancellation. This is without the fact they absolutely didn't ring or email in the first place. But it's up to me to prove this - how do I do that? how on earth do I prove that someone else didn't send something?

Now the reason they were contacting...we have a toll bridge in our area. My husband is the registered keeper of our car and I am for the van so that we can get the residents pass for the toll bridge (one vehicle allowed per person). He made a mistake when filling out the insurance and put himself down as the registered keeper. So the insurance company were trying to make contact regarding this.

My husband is self employed and we rely on him being able to use a van and drive. He got 3 points in lockdown which I was also fuming about because that seemed unfair too. He was booked on to a speed awareness course, followed everything by the book and then the course was cancelled due to lockdown with them informing us 'we will be in touch once things are back to normal'. Next thing we got a letter with 3 points. I appealed and it was turned down. I'm still bitter about that one now!

It's Tuesday and we either have to pay/accept points or write and let them know we want to go to court by Monday. We only got the letter this morning ... it's a bit tight to expect you to get advice and get a letter sent and received in that time. Any help is much appreciated

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[Slapdash]

"What alerted them to this fact 13/14 months after the policy was taken out I have no idea."

You obviously know your policy better that I do but ....

That would be unusual. Policys are usually for a year and renewed (which is a new policy).

That may work against you in any complaint. You are submitting a new declaration and are expected to have verified it.

[BertB]

Indeed, sounds like they renewed the policy. Whether this query stemmed back from that renewal and after 2 months of no reply they decided to terminate the policy.

I have to say, I haven't experienced this before and we have a vehicle in our household that my wife is RK of. When she got a new car we SORN'd and garaged it for when my oldest passed his test. I ended up insuring this in just my name with AA Insurance and he took out a learner driver policy on it so I could supervise him. My wife wasn't named on the policy and it never came up (nor asked who the RK was). He still has this car, registered at his Uni address in Bournemouth with me as a named and it still hasn't come up as a question.

I'm surprised two people with presumably the same surname, at the same address caused such an issue with who the RK was with the insurance company.

[TonyS]

I'm surprised two people with presumably the same surname, at the same address caused such an issue with who the RK was with the insurance company.

I think the issue is that it was incorrectly stated to the insurers, and that from their point of view the policyholder didn't respond to their attempt to discuss and resolve it.

[Fluffykins]

One assumes you've checked your spam email folder.

[Logician]

For future reference, it is a very bad idea to accept an insurance company's credit scheme because if anything goed wrong for any reason they will cancel the policy. ABI guidance is that they should give 7 days notice before doing so, but that can go wrong as in your case. A better option is to pay with credit card or other source of credit and pay that off in instalments, the credit provider then cannot cancel your insurance with or without notice.

[Bigbluevan]

There are two issues, the proof OP mentions is related to the dispute with the insurer.

As far as the court is concerned either insurance was in place or it wasn’t . At the moment the evidence shows it wasn’t but if the dispute with the insurer goes the right way there will be evidence that it was.

It's all a timing thing isn't it. We had very little time to decide before paying the fine etc and with the mail strike on we had to post it back 3 days early with next day delivery paid for just in case ... not giving them anything else to catch us out on. I did get a response from a solicitor who said to accept the conditional offer. He said it can be difficult to get evidence and the fines etc can be more in court so for my own sanity I think I'll just accept the fine and points and dispute it with the insurance provider etc. Thanks though

[Bigbluevan]

Indeed, sounds like they renewed the policy. Whether this query stemmed back from that renewal and after 2 months of no reply they decided to terminate the policy.

I have to say, I haven't experienced this before and we have a vehicle in our household that my wife is RK of. When she got a new car we SORN'd and garaged it for when my oldest passed his test. I ended up insuring this in just my name with AA Insurance and he took out a learner driver policy on it so I could supervise him. My wife wasn't named on the policy and it never came up (nor asked who the RK was). He still has this car, registered at his Uni address in Bournemouth with me as a named and it still hasn't come up as a question.

I'm surprised two people with presumably the same surname, at the same address caused such an issue with who the RK was with the insurance company.

It's down to the fact the insurance policy is factually incorrect. If the RK isn't a question on the policy then fair enough, but we checked ours over and it was. It's my husbands van so he ticked it not thinking. The frightening thing is you can be 'contacted' and not know. A phone call which I'm positive never even came through to us because we were in Turkey and then an email we never received is suffice? I won't be ticking the 'communicate by email' box anymore that's for sure. I doubt this would have happened if the written notice had to be a letter.

"What alerted them to this fact 13/14 months after the policy was taken out I have no idea."

You obviously know your policy better that I do but ....

That would be unusual. Policys are usually for a year and renewed (which is a new policy).

That may work against you in any complaint. You are submitting a new declaration and are expected to have verified it.

This is why we aren't fighting it. Despite the fact I am 100% they never made contact, we didn't notice the DD hadn't gone out and we ticked the form wrong on the form which means they are allowed to cancel the policy giving written notice. I just wish we hadn't ticked the box saying email was ok as I think we would have received the letter.

One assumes you've checked your spam email folder.

No we didn't bother with that yes of course we did. When we asked them to send the email trail showing proof they sent, it they emailed us without the trail and it went straight in to his inbox so I have no reason to believe it would have gone in to his spam folder anyway as it recognised their email from the initial docs they sent etc.

For future reference, it is a very bad idea to accept an insurance company's credit scheme because if anything goed wrong for any reason they will cancel the policy. ABI guidance is that they should give 7 days notice before doing so, but that can go wrong as in your case. A better option is to pay with credit card or other source of credit and pay that off in instalments, the credit provider then cannot cancel your insurance with or without notice.

Are you 100% on this? This is absolutely what I will do in the future if this is the case - thanks! xx

[Logician]

For future reference, it is a very bad idea to accept an insurance company's credit scheme because if anything goed wrong for any reason they will cancel the policy. ABI guidance is that they should give 7 days notice before doing so, but that can go wrong as in your case. A better option is to pay with credit card or other source of credit and pay that off in instalments, the credit provider then cannot cancel your insurance with or without notice.

Are you 100% on this? This is absolutely what I will do in the future if this is the case - thanks! xx

Yes, I used to sit on a committee with someone who was well up in the motor insurance field and that is what he told me. I also saw people in court whose policies had been cancelled because the direct debit had hit their account at the wrong moment, there were not sufficient funds and it had not been paid and their policy cancelled. Oc ourse it was easy for them to say they had received no notice, but it happened often enough for me to accept that insurers were not necessarily as good at giving notice as they should be.

[thisisntme]

For future reference, it is a very bad idea to accept an insurance company's credit scheme because if anything goed wrong for any reason they will cancel the policy. ABI guidance is that they should give 7 days notice before doing so, but that can go wrong as in your case. A better option is to pay with credit card or other source of credit and pay that off in instalments, the credit provider then cannot cancel your insurance with or without notice.

Are you 100% on this? This is absolutely what I will do in the future if this is the case - thanks! xx

Yes, I used to sit on a committee with someone who was well up in the motor insurance field and that is what he told me. I also saw people in court whose policies had been cancelled because the direct debit had hit their account at the wrong moment, there were not sufficient funds and it had not been paid and their policy cancelled. Oc ourse it was easy for them to say they had received no notice, but it happened often enough for me to accept that insurers were not necessarily as good at giving notice as they should be.

This bit of a civil contract that can lead to a criminal conviction leaves a bad taste. The payment of the premium over instalments is charged interest against as a loan yet they can remove the product for non payment after only one failed payment. If you take out HP against a TV, they don't disconnect it if you missed a payment, they give you a failed payment mark on your credit file.