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Newham PCNs Whilst on Holiday
nocupnocoffee
post Mon, 13 May 2019 - 09:59
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Hello,

I’m wondering whether or not it’s worth fighting these. I have informally appealed and got what I believe to be a standard response. I live in a permit area, and have a residents permit. Whilst I was on holiday, the permit had fallen off the windscreen. I got three PCNs, on three consecutive days. I was out of the country and so could do nothing about it.

Does anyone have any thoughts on if it’s worth formally appealing? It’s a lot of money if they refuse again and I have to pay three at full cost!

Thanks in advance!

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmycnLSJ

This post has been edited by nocupnocoffee: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 16:58
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post Mon, 13 May 2019 - 09:59
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Neil B
post Wed, 15 May 2019 - 11:54
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 13 May 2019 - 22:30) *
I agree re the code, but it is an argument that does not garner great support at tribunal

Do you have any examples of failed ones I can look at, as there are additional issues around
that aspect here.

Ta.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 15 May 2019 - 12:15
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 15 May 2019 - 12:54) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 13 May 2019 - 22:30) *
I agree re the code, but it is an argument that does not garner great support at tribunal

Do you have any examples of failed ones I can look at, as there are additional issues around
that aspect here.

Ta.


No just from memory. I don't tend to keep refusals ( perhaps I should) I would be happy to write an argument re this though


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Neil B
post Wed, 15 May 2019 - 12:27
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 15 May 2019 - 13:15) *
No just from memory. I don't tend to keep refusals ( perhaps I should) I would be happy to write an argument re this though

One aspect is, while some councils seem to use either/or willy nilly, I've never seen Newham use
anything other than 16 in permit spaces.

Another is the contradiction in one rejection and the other being plain wrong (missing a third).


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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nocupnocoffee
post Thu, 16 May 2019 - 04:09
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 15 May 2019 - 13:27) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 15 May 2019 - 13:15) *
No just from memory. I don't tend to keep refusals ( perhaps I should) I would be happy to write an argument re this though

One aspect is, while some councils seem to use either/or willy nilly, I've never seen Newham use
anything other than 16 in permit spaces.

Another is the contradiction in one rejection and the other being plain wrong (missing a third).


The letter dated 8th of May is the same for two PCNs.
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nocupnocoffee
post Fri, 17 May 2019 - 10:55
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 15 May 2019 - 13:15) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 15 May 2019 - 12:54) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 13 May 2019 - 22:30) *
I agree re the code, but it is an argument that does not garner great support at tribunal

Do you have any examples of failed ones I can look at, as there are additional issues around
that aspect here.

Ta.


No just from memory. I don't tend to keep refusals ( perhaps I should) I would be happy to write an argument re this though


I would be very grateful if you would do that for me!
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 17 May 2019 - 11:04
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I will do so, but bear in mind it will be untested at adjudication


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nocupnocoffee
post Fri, 17 May 2019 - 12:29
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 17 May 2019 - 12:04) *
I will do so, but bear in mind it will be untested at adjudication


Of course
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nocupnocoffee
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 00:16
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 22:32) *
QUOTE (nocupnocoffee @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 17:58) *

Not had time to look yet but there is no great urgency in your case.


How is this:

I am writing to make a formal appeal with regards the above parking tickets. There are several reasons that I make these appeals, as outlined below.
PN20055670 and PN20022194 state that “the vehicle was parked in a residents or shared use parking place or zone without either clearly displaying a valid permit or voucher or pay and dispay ticket issued for that place, or without payment of the parking charge. There is a sign where you parked that explains that the bay you marked in is for people with a permit. The time plate states Permit holders only 20 minutes.” I was, however, parked in a permit holders only bay, so the contravention you have stated is wrong. There is also no demarkation between bays from this sign and different signage further down the road (see image 1).
If the ticket has been issued for parking there for longer than 20 minutes, then the signage is confusing – I have been parking in this bay since the residents parking zone came into effect, so I believe that having a permit entitles me to park here for any amount of time.
PCN PN20049827 was sent a rejection letter dated 10th May 2019, has already been increased to £130, before the last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of service of the letter. This is in breech of your conditions of discounted payment of £65 during this period.
This PCN is a continuous contravention of the PCN dated 25/03/19, as I did not have any opportunity to move the vehicle after the initial ticket was issued. I was out of the country during this period, and have attached evidence to prove this – see image 2.
PN20022194 is also a continuous contravention of the PCN dated 25/03/19, as I did not have any opportunity to move the vehicle after the initial ticket was issued.
I do not understand how three PCNs have been given two different reasons for ticket issue, and subsequent refusal of informal appeal, as the rejection letters condradict themselves.
I do, in fact, have a permit for this vehicle, and have had it since February 2018. Council records will prove that this vehicle has a valid permit. I have mitigating circumstances for the permit not being on display, and that is that the permit fell out of the windscreen. It was on display in the windscreen when I left the vehicle parked to go on holiday.
Given all of the issues that I have outlined above, I respectfully ask you to cancel the PCNs.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 10:40
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No you are feeding the reasons to reject. I will draft something in the next few days


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nocupnocoffee
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:17
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:40) *
No you are feeding the reasons to reject. I will draft something in the next few days


Thank you.

I don’t know if it’s relevant, but they increased one of the tickets to £130 before the date they should have.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 13:26
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QUOTE (nocupnocoffee @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 12:17) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:40) *
No you are feeding the reasons to reject. I will draft something in the next few days


Thank you.

I don’t know if it’s relevant, but they increased one of the tickets to £130 before the date they should have.



Oh yes its relevant how do you know get and post the evidence


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nocupnocoffee
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 14:44
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 14:26) *
QUOTE (nocupnocoffee @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 12:17) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 22 May 2019 - 11:40) *
No you are feeding the reasons to reject. I will draft something in the next few days


Thank you.

I don’t know if it’s relevant, but they increased one of the tickets to £130 before the date they should have.



Oh yes its relevant how do you know get and post the evidence


https://flic.kr/p/25nUZLi
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