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Crossing solid line, Jo public video evidence.
dillon200
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 15:14
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Hi guys a friend (yes honest) has just received a NIP for overtaking on a solid white line. They have provided two stills that appear to be part of a video taken from the passenger seat of a camper van as my mate passed.
Simple question, is this worth contesting it all looks very dodgy to me.
If you want to see the paperwork ill need to get him to register and post.

Just looking for your oppinion first.

Thanks.
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post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 15:14
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Jlc
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 15:22
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Was the NIP received within 14 days?

The court can give whatever weight they feel to a dash cam. But I suspect it would be quite damning if played in full?


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666
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 15:47
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What offence(s) is alleged? Is it failure to comply, or careless or dangerous driving?

If it's simply failure to comply, there is a number of exceptions to the general prohibition, e.g. passing a stationary vehicle, or a slow-moving cyclist, which could provide a defence if they apply.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 16:18
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Is there any particular issue with video evidence from “Joe Public”?


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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 16:25
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QUOTE (666 @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 16:47) *
What offence(s) is alleged? Is it failure to comply, or careless or dangerous driving?

If it's simply failure to comply, there is a number of exceptions to the general prohibition, e.g. passing a stationary vehicle, or a slow-moving cyclist, which could provide a defence if they apply.


Not slow moving camper vans though


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The Rookie
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 16:54
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QUOTE (dillon200 @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 16:14) *
Simple question, is this worth contesting it all looks very dodgy to me.

In what way does it look dodgy? A witness has reported someone for committing what they believe is a criminal offence, the police have investigated and taken action.

If it goes to court the bench will decide whether guilt has been proven beyond reasonable doubt which it looks like shouldn’t be too hard from what you say.


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dillon200
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 17:41
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OK just to answer some of your questions, It looks dodgy to me as it appears to be take NOT by a dash cam but rather a passenger with a mobile phone, they have only provided two still pictures and have not said that they have video. It looks like this slow moving camper driver warned his passenger that some one was trying to over take then the passenger snapped him as he passed. You have probably guessed he was on a motorcycle. It is conceivable that the driver either gave him a left flash of the indicator or even waved him passed. My mate can not remember this but there are lots of motorist that move over and wave us past. If any of this is true then it was a pre meditated act by one of the many motorcycle haters out there.

The NIP did arrive in 14 days.

The offence is....Motorist failed to comply with solid white line road markings. Manned equipment

This post has been edited by dillon200: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 17:57
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Jlc
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 17:45
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QUOTE (dillon200 @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:41) *
It is conceivable that the driver either gave him a left flash of the indicator or even waved him passed.

It is conceivable but would not amount to a defence.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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andy_foster
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 17:54
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QUOTE (dillon200 @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 16:14) *
Hi guys a friend (yes honest) has just received a NIP


Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance.

BTW, there is no offence of "overtaking on a solid white line"


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dillon200
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:03
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:54) *
QUOTE (dillon200 @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 16:14) *
Hi guys a friend (yes honest) has just received a NIP


Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance.

BTW, there is no offence of "overtaking on a solid white line"



Yes I am aware of that. No crossing or straddling, no parking, no right turn and then there are some exceptions like obstructions and slow moving vehicles.


I think this is all about, Is Jo public's hand held camera shot enough for a conviction. They are not qualified and the equipment not calibrated.


Just wondered if any one had previous experience.
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dillon200
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:13
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 19:01) *
QUOTE (dillon200 @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:41) *
OK just to answer some of your questions, It looks dodgy to me as it appears to be take NOT by a dash cam but rather a passenger with a mobile phone

And? From what you say your friend seems to accept that he committed the offence. If there are two witnesses plus video evidence, it's hard to see on what basis he could contest the allegation. Being a bit miffed at being caught by "joe public" is not a defence.

QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:54) *
BTW, there is no offence of "overtaking on a solid white line"

While that may be technically true, we all know what he means.



Thank You. Yes there is no question that he did it the pictures are clear that he over took. But what they dont show is speed or the reason why. As I have said we get people wave us past all the time. Ill try and upload the pic.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:17
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The only relevant speed is that of the vehicle being passed, which was?

His speed would be wholly irrelevant of course.


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dillon200
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:20
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 19:17) *
The only relevant speed is that of the vehicle being passed, which was?


Exactly there is no evidence of speed
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The Rookie
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:29
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Well there is of course which is the witness statements of the occupants. And it there is video or even two stills it may well be possible to work out speed from the time lapse. Operation snap only accepts video anyway... so I’ll lay odds on video.

Will it be slow enough to excuse crossing the white line? Will it be credible to claim it was?

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 18:30


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NewJudge
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 19:44
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QUOTE (dillon200 @ Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 19:03) *
I think this is all about, Is Jo public's hand held camera shot enough for a conviction. They are not qualified and the equipment not calibrated.

Why does a camera need to be "calibrated"? Calibrated against what? What qualification does somebody need to take a couple of photos or a video using a mobile phone? People do it all the time and the results are usually good enough to see what happened. It would be up to the Magistrates to decide how reliable they find any such evidence.

Unless the vehicle being overtaken was stationary or moving at exceptionally slow speed I can't see speed being an issue. If it's raised as a defence no doubt the witness who took the photos/video would testify what sort of speed the camper van was doing.

Whatever he feels about the evidence against him your mate must respond to the request for driver's details within the time allowed. Failure to do so will see him commit a separate offence which carries six points. After that he will have to see what the police do. This could range from doing nothing (though that is unlikely since they've taken the trouble to issue a NIP and S172 notice), through the offer of a course, a fixed penalty or court action. If he wants to defend the matter he will have to ignore any offer made and have the matter heard in court. He will then be provided with all the evidence the police intend to rely on to convict him.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 19:46
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dillon200
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 19:59
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Thank you again for the responses I will pass them on.

We have been onto google maps and found the exact spot that the pictures were taken. It is a long straight road with alternating overtaking priorities, It is quite clear that my friend started his overtake on broken lines with a clear road in front and then the priorities changed as he passed the camper. In the pictures you can clearly see a long straight road with nothing else on it. This was not dangerous in any way so I just find it pointless.

I understand that this is just mitigation but its a bitter pill to swallow.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 20:15
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No, it’s not even mitigation.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Spinup
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 23:06
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Hi all. I thank you for the comments on the manoeuvre that I performed. Sadly I can’t confirm whether the driver of the camper van or whatever vehicle it was driving erratically or in fact if he waved me by. I wouldn’t under normal circumstances overtake on solid white lines.
I accept that I have done this although I would be fairly sure That I would have started the Move on the broken lines.

The pictures show that I have passed on solid white lines no I have no defence for that.

If I admit to the offence and just plead guilty, what’s the likely punishment? I.e. how many points and what level of fine should I expect to receive?
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Logician
post Thu, 6 Aug 2020 - 23:33
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QUOTE (Spinup @ Fri, 7 Aug 2020 - 00:06) *
If I admit to the offence and just plead guilty, what’s the likely punishment? I.e. how many points and what level of fine should I expect to receive?


You are likely to be offered a fixed penalty of £100 + 3 points.



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The Rookie
post Fri, 7 Aug 2020 - 05:54
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If the overtake commenced on a broken line and then it went solid you should check that ‘throwback arrows’ have been correctly marked to indicate the upcoming restriction.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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