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Police Witness Statement, False Corroboration
ben1974
post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:35
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Hi

I have pled not guilty for allegedly doing 101mph on the M1.
I wasn't speeding and therefore know the police have no evidence to use against me.
I have received my date to appear in court which is 09 March 2018.
I have called the CPS to request evidence of the alleged offence and they said that I should contact the police to get the evidence.

Any advice on how to move forward would be great

Thanks
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post Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:35
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 18:22
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More to the point I think every successful challenged speeding case I have seen on here has been where the OP has been able to say a definite speed that they were driving. The fact you can't do that, even as NewJudge says in a way that avoids saying it in court, makes it really difficult because you are trying to cast doubt on a device where you are not even sure how much you think it is out by, 1%. 10%, 30%. So you don't know whether to say the button was pressed a fraction too late, the policeman couldn't see the motorway, the policeman got the wrong car, etc.

When you are up against someone who has got an exact number and is likely to be experienced in court, know about enforcement devices and has nothing to gain from the case, the only possible defence hope would seem to be the CPS messing up, the policeman being a bit worse for wear and dropping a clanger, or the OP getting very good at hypnotherapy quickly.
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baggins1234
post Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 18:25
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 17:57) *
Depends whether they are quizzed about ACPO guidelines about any other equipment. Where are the calibration lines. Where are the photos. Radar, Lidar, Lidl.


Why on earth would they be quizzed about equipment that’s not been used in this case?
If the defence start doing that, or the OP if he represents himself, then very quickly it will be clear to the bench that these are desperate and irrelevant tactics doomed to fail.

Puma (or its associated video system) probably won’t give any relevant photos/videos in this case other than seeing where the patrol car is parked up and then the ensuing catch up with the Audi.

Lidl? We normally go to Aldi but the Met may be different.
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 19:12
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The OP bought in ACPO guidelines for radar. My point somewhat tongue in cheek is that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing in court. Better to either be "genuinely aggrieved motorist" than quoting something that came up in a Google search whilst the CPS grin.
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ben1974
post Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 20:05
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Ok, so moving forward, if I write a letter to the court to state that I would like to plead guilty to speeding charge and write a brief summary of the events from my perspective. Do I send the letter to the justice clerk at the magistrates court I am due to appear in?

Thanks
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 22:28
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 20:05) *
Ok, so moving forward, if I write a letter to the court to state that I would like to plead guilty to speeding charge and write a brief summary of the events from my perspective. Do I send the letter to the justice clerk at the magistrates court I am due to appear in?

Thanks

The best thing if you are pleading guilty is to fall on your sword and apologise without getting into the specifics. If you are aiming for points versus a ban a "I understand that a number of points will be added to my licence and they will serve as a constant reminder to mediate my speed in future" won't go amiss.

If you plead guilty but then write a letter saying you weren't speeding and the police are fitting you up it will not assist you.

If, as has been said, you want to dispute the speed you need to request a Newton hearing, not write it as part of a "guilty" plea.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 22:29
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ben1974
post Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 22:31
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So no point in sending this then?

I had stated in our previous correspondence that I intended to plead 'not guilty' to the offence of speeding. I intended to plead 'not guilty' because I understood (due to my own error) that the charge against me was driving at 102mph. However, after having some legal advice I now realise that the actual charge is made against me is for breaking the national speed limit of 70 miles per hour. I would therefore like to plead guilty to the charge of breaking the speed limit. As I was driving my car at 85 miles per hour when I passed the policeman.
I do however stand by my original statement that I was not driving my vehicle at 102 miles per hour.
I had previously decided to plead 'not guilty' to the charge, as I believed that a camera photo, video or digital printout from a speed-measuring device was needed to be shown as evidence. I knew there would be none of these, due to the fact I wasn't driving that fast.
Since our last correspondance I have contacted the Met Police and asked them to provide me with the evidence of the alleged offence. I have since recieved the evidence agaist me in the form of a short 'witness statement', written 3 days after the alleged offence, which states that I was driving at 102 miles per hour, and he has used a PUMA device to measure my speed. There is no other evidence, other than the officers statement.
I would like to state that I do not believe that the officer has acted dishonestly or disingenuously, as I had previously suspected. I do however believe that he has made a sizeable error in calculating my speed.
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Logician
post Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 01:20
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Do you intend that as a) the basis for requesting a Newton hearing for the court to make a decision on your speed, or b) justification for your change of plea to guilty?

It will do for a) but if your purpose is b) you are likely to end up with a Newton hearing anyway. The prosecution is unlikely to accept a speed of 85mph which is the basis of your plea because it would make a difference to the sentencing decision. You have to make your mind up, either accept 102mph or go into a Newton hearing.


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notmeatloaf
post Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 10:57
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Just to repeat my previous advice as well you need to put forward an argument as to why you know (not think) you were driving at 85mph - presumably you looked at your speedo at least twice and the reason you looked at your speedo then.

It is not a case of meeting somewhere in the middle like in a street market. The CPS have evidence of an exact number and they or the court will need a convincing reason to accept 85mph. This is much more difficult with Puma than with, say, a follow check where there is more wiggle room.
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KH_
post Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 19:31
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QUOTE (ben1974 @ Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 22:31) *
I now realise that the actual charge is made against me is for breaking the national speed limit of 70 miles per hour

If the speed in excess of 100 mph is not on the charge, I'd just go with a guilty, you already said you were doing 85
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NewJudge
post Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 22:26
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 19:31) *
If the speed in excess of 100 mph is not on the charge, I'd just go with a guilty, you already said you were doing 85

Somewhere along the line the speed alleged will be mentioned. It forms an important facet of the prosecution case and will be used for sentencing.
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