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Vehicle Leasing / Coronavirus parking tickets, Lease company still won't collect vehicle
gongladosh
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 11:36
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Hi,

Hopefully someone here can advise. Sorry for the lengthy nature of this post...

For the last two years, I ran a leased vehicle from Lex Leasing. It was due to go back to the lease company on expiry of my 2-year contract on 16/04. With Covid-19, Lex suspended pickups - we were told to retain the keys and to 'keep the vehicle safe, ideally off-road', also that I cannot drive the vehicle after my contract has expired. Lex also states in the conditions on its FAQ page (https://www.lexautolease.co.uk/coronavirus):

"You must stop using the vehicle after the Proposed Contract End Date. The vehicle may be parked on the public highway. As you will no longer be driving the vehicle, you can cancel your motor insurance policy. You may still receive invoices between the Proposed Contract End Date and the collection date but your payment will not be charged and direct debit payment will not be taken.

As is the standard process you will still have to pay any charges that may be due if you have exceeded the mileage allowance or for any damage on the vehicle outside of fair wear and tear. You will find your mileage allowance and excess mileage rate on your agreement. We will advise of any charges that may be due AFTER the vehicle has been collected"


Lex's process is to automatically extend the contract month-by-month (and extend payment) unless you opt not to do so. If you choose not to extend, you need to contact Lex with full details and inform them that you don't want the extension. I did this on 06/04.

On 16/04, my contract on the Lex vehicle lease expired. Vehicle was at this point stored on my drive.

On 29/04 I called Lex to try and confirm pickup - Lex's automated response mentioned that due to Covid-19, no phone calls will be accepted and I should email instead; I then emailed Lex to try and chase on pickup date- as part of this I stated that as of mid-May, the vehicle would be stored on-road.

On 22/05, my replacement car (from a different lease company) arrived, and is now kept stored on my drive; i.e. the Lex vehicle was now moved to the road due to lack of extra space on my drive. I live in a parking scheme area, at this point the Lex vehicle was still the registered vehicle in the scheme.

As of 25/05, my parking scheme permit for the Lex vehicle expired. I am not permitted to renew it as I'm no longer the keeper of the vehicle due to my contract ending.

On 01/05 Lex confirmed by email response that I'm in a queue for pickup, no pickup date was given, they also confirmed that the contract with them has ended.

As of ~25/05, my parking scheme on-road permit expired. Since this time it has accrued 3 parking tickets and will continue to do so at a rate of >3 a week.
I can't renew the permit that would prevent it getting ticketed, as I'm no longer the keeper of the vehicle
I can't move it as I've been instructed by Lex not to drive it, I'm also no longer insured on it.
There's no sign of Lex collecting it.

29/05 I emailed Lex and my local council (Manchester City Council) and mentioned that it's accruing tickets. I also chased Lex on collection dates. I had a conversation with a rather helpful traffic warden as it was ticketed a third time, who mentioned that as I'm no longer the keeper of the vehicle, and the tickets were issued after my contract has expired, it should not be my liability from a ticket perspective.

However, this vehicle will still accrue tickets on a regular basis. Can anyone advise if I am actually liable on these tickets please, as Lex will clearly push back to me, collection of the vehicle could be weeks, possibly months away yet.

thanks.

This post has been edited by gongladosh: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 11:37
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post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 11:36
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stamfordman
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 11:58
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Hold on - with lease cars you are not the RK (in most cases) so how did you get the parking permit?

You could put visitor permits on it to at least keep things in check?

What does your contract say about end of contract arrangements?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 12:02
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gongladosh
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 12:18
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Fair point re. RK - bad wording on my part: when you register for the parking permit you need to supply a V5C copy (which shows Lex as the vehicle owner) and a headed letter from them stating that I will be the looking after their vehicle for the period of the contract hire. If you supply both, and the cover letter is in date, that counts as sufficient proof.

I did think of the visitor permit but that's at a cost of £40, which I'd rather not pay as it's for Lex's vehicle until they choose to collect it, rather than a family / friend's vehicle.

In terms of the contract, I'd have to dig that out but there's no provision in it for the likes of Coronavirus.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 12:30
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I think you need to get onto Lex and sort it out.

There may be small print that makes you liable as they do say they have suspended collections.

Are you exposed to them financially - ie through a credit/debit card.

Obviously one solution is to get a permit for your current car and put the Lex one back on your drive or move it outside of a permit area.

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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 12:40
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Is your current parking permit vehicle specific?

What's the rules on abandoned vehicles? That might chivvy them up.


Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 12:43
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gongladosh
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 12:44
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yes- as it's a parking scheme area, you need to register a specific vehicle in order to prevent it being ticketed. The leased vehicle used to be that vehicle but as the lease has now expired, I can't renew the permit as I no longer have responsibility for it.

This post has been edited by gongladosh: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 15:26
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Longtime Lurker
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 15:42
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You're heading out of our area of expertise here, we know the parking stuff really well but this really comes down to what's in the contract between you and the hire firm, which we haven't seen, wouldn't be experts on if we did see it.

For what it's worth there's probably a way to get all but one ticket cancelled if as this is what's known as a continuous contravention, but the warden is right, you can't fight the tickets, only the Regstered Keeper can., This is is good because it means you're not liable for the tickets, HOWEVER there may be something in the contract that might make you liable for reimbursing the hire company for tickets that are your fault but they are liable for.

I think the best advice we can give is keep as much proof of your actions as you can.

This post has been edited by Longtime Lurker: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 15:43
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hcandersen
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 16:59
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then emailed Lex to try and chase on pickup date- as part of this [b]I stated that as of mid-May, the vehicle would be stored on-road.[/b]


Did you mention anything about restricted location?


On 01/05 Lex confirmed by email response that I'm in a queue for pickup, no pickup date was given, they also confirmed that the contract with them has ended. (not 'is to end' but has ended?)


Let's see it pl, it's important.

Yes, what you send to them is important, but it's what they confirm to you which is more so.

29/05 I emailed Lex and my local council (Manchester City Council) and mentioned that it's accruing tickets.


So, just taking this strand of actions and events, could it be that:

The contract was cancelled;
You kept physical possession of the vehicle on your property for the next 21 days - 1st to 22nd
You left the vehicle on a public road on 22nd with a valid permit until 25 May;
The vehicle has accrued PCNs.

Don't beat yourself up about it. What else could you have done except perhaps have contacted them on 22nd, this being the day that you knew something had to give i.e. 2 cars, 1 drive.

But let's see their email of 1 May.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 17:24
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 17:59) *
But let's see their email of 1 May.



+1

As of now the FAQ says they are not doing pickups. So if they told you they would pick up and did not tell you that they then couldn't, I can't see you've done anything wrong.
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gongladosh
post Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 22:44
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 17:59) *
Did you mention anything about restricted location?


On 01/05 Lex confirmed by email response that I'm in a queue for pickup, no pickup date was given, they also confirmed that the contract with them has ended. (not 'is to end' but has ended?)


I'd not mentioned the restricted location as at that point I still had a valid permit. I mentioned it to them as soon as I found out (ie when the vehicle started getting tickets).

In terms of contract, I have an email from them confirming that my contract with them has expired and I opted not to extend it.

The content from this short email from Lex (as received 1st May) is:

Good morning



Thank you for your email. I apologise you cannot reach us via the phone the lines are currently closed. We have the details from you ending the contract on the 16th April. Please note you are in the queue for when the collection agents re-open.







This post has been edited by gongladosh: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 22:46
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 07:08
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Given their response I would send an email to the Council's parking department and explain the situation. Lay it on thick that this is a Covid situation which they should take into account rather than issue more PCNs or pursue the existing ones.

That might provide you with backup should there be a subsequent dispute with the leasing company who will, no doubt, ask why their vehicle was not on your driveway whilst your current vehicle enjoyed permit parking on the carriageway.

Mick
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hcandersen
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 07:59
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Thank you for your email. I apologise you cannot reach us via the phone the lines are currently closed. We have the details from you ending the contract on the 16th April. Please note you are in the queue for when the collection agents re-open.

Not the unequivocal reassurance I was hoping to see.


I'd not mentioned the restricted location as at that point I still had a valid permit. I mentioned it to them as soon as I found out (ie when the vehicle started getting tickets).


Mmmm??? I think there's a bit missing here. Your new car didn't arrive out of thin air, you had continuing discussions with whoever was supplying and you would have had notice from them as regards when your new car was due i.e. you knew about the pinch-point of 22nd well in advance. You also knew that where you intended to put Lex's car in this instance was restricted, otherwise a permit would not have been required.

And put yourself in Lex's shoes for a moment, or actually the shoes of an average person working for them trying to organise pick-ups. How would you approach it? You'd probably look to prioritise collections, and wouldn't have any reason to put your collection at the top of that list.

Setting aside legalities, do you honestly think you did all you could? Anyway, this is history.

As per MMV, contact the council AND copy in Lex. Make sure all parties know what's going on. Just facts and write it as if you are writing to both of them together. Personally, I would put Lex as the primary addressee and position yourself as the gatekeeper of info, NOT that you have any liability and do not justify your actions, it's not necessary. Just describe.

On *** I wrote to you to cancel my contract for VRM *** and informed you that as I was expecting a replacement vehicle from a new supplier I would have to leave your vehicle on the road. You replied on *** that my lease contract for VRM **** would end on/had ended on ***. You also said that your collections were delayed. On ** 22 May, some 3 weeks later, I took delivery of my new vehicle and this necessarily meant that I had to move your vehicle on to the road - strictly speaking covered by my insurance as I ceased to be insured on your vehicle when the contract ended (you might want to express this differently). Luckily there were still a few days remaining on the permit and so this did not create a problem at that time. However, because you had still not collected the car by 25 May the local authority started to issue penalty charge notices(@£** a time) and this continues even as I write, I count *** PCNs at present.
I know you are operating in unusual times, but unless you collect your vehicle, this problem can only get worse and I hope that this email will cause you to give this problem the attention it clearly needs.

I am copying this email to ***** parking department and I have also included their and your telephone numbers in the hope that you will be able to establish direct contact.

Regards
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stamfordman
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 09:05
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Have you returned the car keys?

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gongladosh
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 09:41
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 10:05) *
Have you returned the car keys?


Unfortunately not - the process should be that I hand them to the agent, along with service book, manual etc. As they've still yet to tell me when they plan to pick up the vehicle some 6 weeks later, I still have them. There's no process for handing them back other than to a collection agent.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 10:09
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From a parking enforcement point of view what will happen?

The authority will send notice to owners to Lex, they are liable and from this legal point of view cannot transfer this liability to you. There is a good chance they will try. If they do and the council accept it good luck to them. I cannot see that an adjudicator could find that you exercised the rights and responsibilities of the owner given that you have been informed you cannot drive the car and to cancel insurance . But the council could not them reserve on Lex

But they may decide to take the money from your account so make sure you cancel the DD with the bank. The bank may say you have to do this via Lex, but that is not so you may remove any authority and if the bank make the payment they must refund you.

Or they may try other recovery methods, again I do not think they would have much luck but others are better able to advise if this happens


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cp8759
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 13:12
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Well this is the situation as I see it: the vehicle is not under your control *at all* and as far as I can tell you've become an involuntary bailee to the keys / manual etc. The vehicle is not hired to you nor are you the person who exercises the rights of ownership over it.

Personally I would box up the keys / manual etc and send them by special delivery back to the leasing company, together with a covering letter stating that as a goodwill gesture, you're not charging them any storage or admin fees.

Who cares what happens to the car after that?


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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