Uk Car Management Fine, 2 years ago - car had heating issues Options

[SAFEQAZ]

Hi Guys,

Received a fine for parking in private road 2 years ago, yes 2 years ago, legally is this still enforceable?

Attached the pic of the letter received from Gladstone's and a sign showing no parking ( this is only at the start of the road) ( other signs on the wall simply state no parking, illegally parked vehicles will be towed away)

Driver was parked here literally not even 10 minutes as they went to get a bottle of water as the car had heating issues. Popped into Tescos and walaaah a fine!

A letter was sent explaining this but no response received and since then nothing really and all of a sudden bang solicitors letter.

Whats the next step guys? Any advice?

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[ostell]

That is a forbidding sign, the other ones must be even more forbidding. As the sign is forbidding parking then there can be no contract to park. If there is no contract then there can be no breach of contract and no charge. The only remedy would be a trespass calim from the landholder.

Get a copy of the other signs if you can.

Forbidding parking then allowing parking for a payment is perverse. There is also frustration of contract because the driver had not intended to stop there but a mechanical breakdown forced the driver to stop.

[kommando]

2 years ago, yes 2 years ago, legally is this still enforceable?

They have 6 years to raise a claim.

[Macapaca]

That sign is laughable. No parking allowed and yet they want to claim £100 for parking! Well the driver didn't park because the car had a mechanical failure.

The LBC is also laughable. It falls way short of what a proper LBC should contain. Do your research and send them a letter spelling out in detail what a LBC should contain. Make it clear that you will contest this should they foolishly issue court proceedings. Also state that you will request a stay of court proceedings until they have fully complied with the PAP.

They have sent this as a try on to see if a letter from a Solicitor will spook you into sending them some money.

Presumably the driver also had a passenger who could provide a witness statement, if needed, to verify that the vehicle suffered mechanical breakdown?

[SAFEQAZ]

Hello,

Thanks for the advice, so next few days I will prep a response :-

Stating the sign falls short of what a LBC should contain and also detail what its missing therefore I will contest this if they decide to issue court proceedings.

I am not clear with what this means "Also state that you will request a stay of court proceedings until they have fully complied with the PAP".


Thank you guys, I nearly thought I had to pay as it came from the solicitors. Phew good thing I found this forum

[Umkomaas]

I am not clear with what this means "Also state that you will request a stay of court proceedings until they have fully complied with the PAP".

They should provide you with everything to which you are entitled to under the PaP. Don't expect them to roll over and give you everything - you might have to challenge them if they're a bit 'shy' on certain items!

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...ls/debt-pap.pdf

[Macapaca]

Hello,

Thanks for the advice, so next few days I will prep a response :-

Stating the sign falls short of what a LBC should contain and also detail what its missing therefore I will contest this if they decide to issue court proceedings.

I am not clear with what this means "Also state that you will request a stay of court proceedings until they have fully complied with the PAP".


Thank you guys, I nearly thought I had to pay as it came from the solicitors. Phew good thing I found this forum

Don't help them by telling them what is missing. Simply provide the long list of what a proper LBC should contain, which you will get from the link provided by Umkomaas. Then give them 14 days to provide it otherwise you will consider that they do not wish to proceed in accordance with the PAP.

It is quite onerous to provide all the detail required, which costs time and money and so they will likely not bother and give up! However if do try to respond they probably won't be fully compliant in which case you need to state that should their client issue court proceedings you will formally request a stay of court proceedings until they do comply. Don't worry about what this means because it probably won't get that far. It is just the phrase used to request to a court that proceedings are put on hold. Note that the PAP is a necessary precursor to court proceedings and so they need to comply! Also note that the solicitor has absolutely no power whatsoever! They cannot issue court proceedings. Only their client can. A letter from a solicitor is just to spook you into paying but it has no more authority than a letter from me or anybody else.

[SchoolRunMum]

Almost exactly like the wording of this forbidding sign:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/20...e-contract.html

Court transcript for that case (so you can read what the Judge said) is available linked in the Parking Prankster's CASE LAW pages.

[SAFEQAZ]

Ok, so I have drafted a response taking the relevant section from the PAP, see here :-

I did not mention anything about the sign or the reason why my car was there. Is this response sufficient for now? Also should I send this recorded?

Dear Gladstones

Parking Charge Notice Ref [VCxxxxxxxx]: Vehicle Registration [xxxx xxx]

I refer to the PCN mentioned above, this LBC falls short of what a proper LBC should contain.

Please provide the following before you think about starting proceedings :-

(b)
3. (iii) where the debt arises from an oral agreement, who made the agreement, what was agreed (including, as far as possible, what words were used) and when and where it was agreed;
4. (iv) where the debt arises from a written agreement, the date of the agreement, the parties to it and the fact that a copy of the written agreement can be requested from the creditor;
5. (v) where the debt has been assigned, the details of the original debt and creditor, when it was assigned and to whom;
6. (vi) if regular instalments are currently being offered by or on behalf of the debtor, or are being paid, an explanation of why the offer is not acceptable and why a court claim is still being considered;
7. (vii) details of how the debt can be paid (for example, the method of and address for payment) and details of how to proceed if the debtor wishes to discuss payment options;
8. (viii) the address to which the completed Reply Form should be sent;
One of the following –
1. (i) enclose an up-to-date statement of account for the debt, which should include details of any interest and administrative or other charges added;
2. (ii) enclose the most recent statement of account for the debt and state in the Letter of Claim the amount of interest incurred and any administrative or other charges imposed since that statement of account was issued, sufficient to bring it up to date; or
3. (iii) where no statements have been provided for the debt, state in the Letter of Claim the amount of interest incurred and any administrative or other charges imposed since the debt was incurred;
©
2. 3.2 The Letter of Claim should be clearly dated toward the top of the first page. It should be posted either on the day it is dated or, if that is not reasonably possible, the following day.

Once the above is provided, I will review the LBC and will contest if you decide to issue court proceedings. On top of this I will request a stay of court proceedings until they have fully complied with the PAP.

If you wish to proceed with in accordance to PAP you have 14 days to reply.

[Macapaca]

I would suggest the following wording for the last para 'Please respond IN FULL to the above within 14 days otherwise I will deem that you have decided not to progress this in accordance with the PAP'. This letter and all subsequent correspindence will be provided to the Court should you wish to proceed. Failure to reply in full as reasonably requested may be seen by the Court as unreasonable behaviour.

Note that this statement is more for the Court rather than the PPC to illustrate that you have made reasonable steps to resolve the dispute.

You should get a record of posting by the PO but do not pay for tracked delivery as the PPC may not wish to sign for it.

That should keep them busy for now and will call their bluff if they were not really serious about taking this to Court. The majority of cases do not proceed to Court as this costs the PPC money! They lose money taking it to Court even if they win!

[nosferatu1001]

First class, free proof of posting. Nothing more.

[Eljayjay]

Although Macapaca suggests seeking a response within 14 days, when requesting a response to a letter of claim, the PAP states:-

If the debtor requests a document or information, the creditor must –
(a) provide the document or information; or
(b) explain why the document or information is unavailable,
within 30 days of receipt of the request.

You may wish to stick with the 30 days.

The only reference to 14 days which I can find in the PAP is:-

Where the debtor has responded to the Letter of Claim but agreement has not
been reached, the creditor should give the debtor at least 14 days notice of
their intention to start court proceedings, unless there are exceptional
circumstances in which urgent action is required (for example, because the
limitation period is about to expire).

[SAFEQAZ]

Ok thats fine I have changed it to 30 days and also added the following to the top :-

1. (i) a copy of the notice of assignment of the debt
2. (ii) a copy of the written contract for the debt


Cheers guys. Will print this and send it to Gladstones tomorrow.

So if I do not hear back in 30 days or I should assume case closed

[nosferatu1001]

If you don't hear back in 30 days send them a "matter is now closed, do not contact me again"
Then you have a definite end from your side, and means they pave had two chances to correspond.

[Macapaca]

The 30 day reply time is for documents requested after receipt of a proper LBC. At this stage you are requesting receipt of a proper LBC hence why I suggested 14 days. They have supposedly already sent one and in doing so started the legal process. So it is not unreasonable to ask them to supply a proper LBC and if it was me I would not be generous and allow them 30 days.

Once in receipt of the proper LBC you can then invoke the 30 day limit under section 5.2 of the PAP for any further relevant documents.. This then buys you some more time should you need it.

You need to bear in mind that the PPC has probably never even read the PAP let alone every followed it! So why be kind to them. Take control of the situation and call their bluff.

[SAFEQAZ]

Hello,

Unfortunately i received a response from Gladstones and it was not as positive as i hoped.

I have attached a letter and am wondering what the next steps will be. Any advice is much appreciated.

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[Redivi]

Dear Sir

Ref ***

I have received your belated letter dated 17th July and note your refusal to provide the information that I requested 30th May
It is unacceptable that you have taken seven weeks to provide such an unhelpful response when your own letters state that I must reply within 30 days or my responses may not be considered

I deny your assertion that the information requested is irrelevant and insist that you comply with your obligations under the Pre-action Protocol for Debt Claims

Unless you are in the habit of threatening legal proceedings without inspecting your client's case, it should already be in your possession

Please send it without further delay

Thank You

Yours Faithfully

This post has been edited by Redivi: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 16:10

[Macapaca]

As I suspected they can't be bothered to provide a proper LBC. That is because it takes effort, time and money. They don't want to spend money they just want you to give them some for free. Their poor response will not look good to the judge should they take it that far. However it is such a pathetic response that I doubt they have the intention of taking it that far. If they do then they not building a very good case!

Redivi's draft letter looks good and is worth sending without delay as it paints the picture that you are pro-actively trying to resolve the dispute.

[nosferatu1001]

I would also send it
WE know that Gladstones dont have ANY documents until they get nearer to court
This exposes this poor conduct

[SAFEQAZ]

Thank you for the response, i will be using the response provided by "Redivi" and hopefully that should be the end of the matter.
Again your help has been valuable and much appreciated.