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loady
post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 20:17
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i inadvertantly parked in a disabled bay, its is about 4 car spaces long and it is situated at the end of a road, i had driven pass and reversed into the road and parking bay, i didnt notice the markings and i have also noted that there is one sign at the opposite end of the bay, do i have any grounds to appeal it ?, if not i will just suck it. pictures below that i took.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lwnkxyreq6ibw4j/I...0349_0.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dblhcg66qlha16k/I...0411_6.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1e8u1l85yui04oi/I...0406_5.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7owdjtjg4nn3ite/I...0356_0.jpg?dl=0


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post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 20:17
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loady
post Thu, 21 Nov 2019 - 22:37
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 21 Nov 2019 - 17:19) *
I'm sure its been asked before, but you own the car or is it leased? is the v5c correct showing the same address as the NTO ?


i own the car and the address is the same on both


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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 21 Nov 2019 - 22:55
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You have won, but lets' tweak their nose a bit. If they reject your representations then a cost order against them is a strong possibility. I will have a bit of fun drafting tomorrow unless HCA wants in, then I will gladly defer


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loady
post Fri, 22 Nov 2019 - 18:22
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 21 Nov 2019 - 22:55) *
You have won, but lets' tweak their nose a bit. If they reject your representations then a cost order against them is a strong possibility. I will have a bit of fun drafting tomorrow unless HCA wants in, then I will gladly defer


Thank you !, tweaking the nose of the council/3rd Reich and getting paid for it ?.

So does this now go to adjudicator, do i have to attend New Zealand house ?


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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 22 Nov 2019 - 19:19
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QUOTE (loady @ Fri, 22 Nov 2019 - 18:22) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 21 Nov 2019 - 22:55) *
You have won, but lets' tweak their nose a bit. If they reject your representations then a cost order against them is a strong possibility. I will have a bit of fun drafting tomorrow unless HCA wants in, then I will gladly defer


Thank you !, tweaking the nose of the council/3rd Reich and getting paid for it ?.

So does this now go to adjudicator, do i have to attend New Zealand house ?


Its not New Zealand house but no not adjudication yet. First formal representations to the council where we will point out all the rubbish in the responses to the informal challenges then the absurdity of despite you warning them they still served the NTO out of time


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loady
post Wed, 27 Nov 2019 - 17:53
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 22 Nov 2019 - 19:19) *
QUOTE (loady @ Fri, 22 Nov 2019 - 18:22) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 21 Nov 2019 - 22:55) *
You have won, but lets' tweak their nose a bit. If they reject your representations then a cost order against them is a strong possibility. I will have a bit of fun drafting tomorrow unless HCA wants in, then I will gladly defer


Thank you !, tweaking the nose of the council/3rd Reich and getting paid for it ?.

So does this now go to adjudicator, do i have to attend New Zealand house ?


Its not New Zealand house but no not adjudication yet. First formal representations to the council where we will point out all the rubbish in the responses to the informal challenges then the absurdity of despite you warning them they still served the NTO out of time



Ok, so what am i doing now ?


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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 12:35
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Making representation against the NTO. I will re read the thread and draft for you over the weekend


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loady
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 22:16
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 12:35) *
Making representation against the NTO. I will re read the thread and draft for you over the weekend


I dont want to be a pest, i have a limited ammount of time to do this and appreciate your help but i dont want bailiffs turning up at my door icon_redface.gif


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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 10:27
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QUOTE (loady @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 22:16) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 12:35) *
Making representation against the NTO. I will re read the thread and draft for you over the weekend


I dont want to be a pest, i have a limited ammount of time to do this and appreciate your help but i dont want bailiffs turning up at my door icon_redface.gif



Don't worry about being a pest. You have until the 17th of December to make representations. I will not let you down and will get on the case this week ( family being demanding of my time is slowing me up) I'm free from Wednesday


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hcandersen
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 11:54
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Grounds:
Penalty exceeds the amount applicable ....circumstances of the case.
Procedural impropriety

In narrative box:

I refer you to this NTO which is dated 18 November 2019 and relates to a PCN served on 7 May 2019 which, for the purposes of the regulations, is the 'relevant date'.

This is an elapsed period of over 6 months.

I also refer you to regulation 20 of the General Regulations which I have set out in detail below for your benefit:


Time limit for service of a notice to owner

20.—(1) A notice to owner may not be served after the expiry of the period of 6 months beginning with the relevant date.
(2) The relevant date—
(a)in a case where a notice to owner has been cancelled under regulation 23(5)© of these Regulations, is the date on which the district judge serves notice in accordance with regulation 23(5)(d);
(b)in case where a notice to owner has been cancelled under regulation 5 of the Representations and Appeals Regulations, is the date of such cancellation;
©in a case where payment of the penalty charge was made, or had purportedly been made, before the expiry of the period mentioned in paragraph (1) but the payment or purported payment had been cancelled or withdrawn, is the date on which the enforcement authority is notified that the payment or purported payment has been cancelled or withdrawn;
(d)in any other case, is the date on which the relevant penalty charge notice was served under regulation 9.


The regulations make it absolutely clear that the authority are prohibited from serving a NTO beyond 6 months and therefore they have acted ultra vires. This NTO is therefore void, has no legal effect and must be cancelled.

I feel that I must express my concern that the authority's internal processes have failed in this way because it should not lie with an owner to instruct the council on their powers in this matter given the clarity of the absolutely strict prohibition under the regulations.

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loady
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 16:10
Post #50


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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 11:54) *
Grounds:
Penalty exceeds the amount applicable ....circumstances of the case.
Procedural impropriety

In narrative box:

I refer you to this NTO which is dated 18 November 2019 and relates to a PCN served on 7 May 2019 which, for the purposes of the regulations, is the 'relevant date'.

This is an elapsed period of over 6 months.

I also refer you to regulation 20 of the General Regulations which I have set out in detail below for your benefit:


Time limit for service of a notice to owner

20.—(1) A notice to owner may not be served after the expiry of the period of 6 months beginning with the relevant date.
(2) The relevant date—
(a)in a case where a notice to owner has been cancelled under regulation 23(5)© of these Regulations, is the date on which the district judge serves notice in accordance with regulation 23(5)(d);
(b)in case where a notice to owner has been cancelled under regulation 5 of the Representations and Appeals Regulations, is the date of such cancellation;
©in a case where payment of the penalty charge was made, or had purportedly been made, before the expiry of the period mentioned in paragraph (1) but the payment or purported payment had been cancelled or withdrawn, is the date on which the enforcement authority is notified that the payment or purported payment has been cancelled or withdrawn;
(d)in any other case, is the date on which the relevant penalty charge notice was served under regulation 9.


The regulations make it absolutely clear that the authority are prohibited from serving a NTO beyond 6 months and therefore they have acted ultra vires. This NTO is therefore void, has no legal effect and must be cancelled.

I feel that I must express my concern that the authority's internal processes have failed in this way because it should not lie with an owner to instruct the council on their powers in this matter given the clarity of the absolutely strict prohibition under the regulations.


Very well said. can i apply for costs ? i know this forum is free but i am very grateful for it and would like to donate half of anything i got to the running of it


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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 20:06
Post #51


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Posts: 26,655
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Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (loady @ Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 16:10) *
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 11:54) *
Grounds:
Penalty exceeds the amount applicable ....circumstances of the case.
Procedural impropriety

In narrative box:

I refer you to this NTO which is dated 18 November 2019 and relates to a PCN served on 7 May 2019 which, for the purposes of the regulations, is the 'relevant date'.

This is an elapsed period of over 6 months.

I also refer you to regulation 20 of the General Regulations which I have set out in detail below for your benefit:


Time limit for service of a notice to owner

20.—(1) A notice to owner may not be served after the expiry of the period of 6 months beginning with the relevant date.
(2) The relevant date—
(a)in a case where a notice to owner has been cancelled under regulation 23(5)© of these Regulations, is the date on which the district judge serves notice in accordance with regulation 23(5)(d);
(b)in case where a notice to owner has been cancelled under regulation 5 of the Representations and Appeals Regulations, is the date of such cancellation;
©in a case where payment of the penalty charge was made, or had purportedly been made, before the expiry of the period mentioned in paragraph (1) but the payment or purported payment had been cancelled or withdrawn, is the date on which the enforcement authority is notified that the payment or purported payment has been cancelled or withdrawn;
(d)in any other case, is the date on which the relevant penalty charge notice was served under regulation 9.


The regulations make it absolutely clear that the authority are prohibited from serving a NTO beyond 6 months and therefore they have acted ultra vires. This NTO is therefore void, has no legal effect and must be cancelled.

I feel that I must express my concern that the authority's internal processes have failed in this way because it should not lie with an owner to instruct the council on their powers in this matter given the clarity of the absolutely strict prohibition under the regulations.


Very well said. can i apply for costs ? i know this forum is free but i am very grateful for it and would like to donate half of anything i got to the running of it


I agree with what HCA has said but you could not apply for costs unless they were silly enough to reject your representations at which stage (adjudication) you could


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loady
post Tue, 10 Mar 2020 - 10:41
Post #52


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Its been a long while for them to do it, they cancelled the ticket at the 11th hour because the notice to owner wast served in time. it angers me that knowing full well they dont have a leg to stand on they dont cancel it in the first instance. Thanks to everyone that input into this, i wouldn't have done it without your guidance


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