TFL PCN, TFL PCN Options

[manur]

Hi guys,

I got a pcn this morning whilst my mother was vomiting in the vehicle, I spoke with the police support officer and he said I was breaking the law and If I feel strongly to appeal against the PCN. Do I have any grounds for appeal? My mother has a blue badge and disabled. Any help would be much appreciated. https://maps.app.goo.gl/WEYxVqPskbToUMGP6 (I was parked underneath the bridge)

This post has been edited by manur: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 - 11:41

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[stamfordman]

Whereabouts exactly. Pavement parking is hard to appeal but stopping due to circumstances beyond your control could work. Any medical evidence to back up why mother was sick?

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5293704,-0....6384!8i8192

[manur]

It was opposite the mosque underneath the bridge, it doesn't happen on a regular basis and what sort of medical evidence would I need? She is taking quite a lot of medication that's been prescribed by the doctor.

I didn't even think it was a pavement tbh it looked like an open area without any signage to state you can or can't park. It had a dropped kerb where I thought it was safe to enter the vehicle and help my mum whilst she was vomiting.

This post has been edited by manur: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 - 12:43

[stamfordman]

So you pulled off the road here? There is dropped kerb access. I would certainly go for stopping due to circumstances beyond your control but you need to make it clear why you had to stop and couldn't continue to a better place.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5293704,-0....6384!8i8192

[manur]

That is exactly the place I stopped at, after coming back from a long journey and living in the Borough I know on that stretch of road after 7am you can't park anywhere because of the red route. Would you be able to help me out Stamfordman on how I can go about appealing this PCN?

[stamfordman]

here's something but wait for other comments.

Dear TFL,

I wish to challenge PCN xxxxxx on the grounds that I was forced to stop due to circumstances beyond my control.

I was driving my mother, who is registered disabled and has a blue badge, towards the end of a long journey when she became very unwell and starting to vomit. I had to quickly pull off the carriageway, using the dropped footway access under the flyover in Bow Road, to attend to her.

I did speak to your CEO who gave the PCN, who said we could appeal.

I hope you appreciate that I would never stop unnecessarily on a red route but this was a situation where I had no alternative, and we stopped only for the time needed to ensure my mother was well enough to continue.

I look forward to the cancellation of this PCN.

Yours

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 - 15:18

[manur]

Nice one Stamfordman, also I will wait for others response. I forgot to mention that the vehicle is a motability vehicle registered to my mother if that helps.

This post has been edited by manur: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 - 16:09

[hcandersen]

Send nothing until we see their photos.

I got a pcn this morning whilst my mother was vomiting in the vehicle

If the officer saw your mother had actually vomited, which is what you say was the situation, then their actions were callous in the extreme. There would have been a middle-aged/elderly woman in the car, in fact logic dictates not in the car but outside having removed themselves from the car to gather themselves and clean themselves with whatever was to hand.

I am sceptical that this was the scene which faced them.

OP, I want more details, including photos, before I suggest an approach in this matter.

[stamfordman]

This is a TFL windscreen PCN and we often see no details online - OP, check on TFL's site to see if it has been recorded on their system. It almost certainly won't be up today though so check on Monday at least.

Did the CEO hand you the PCN? As HCA says more details about what happened would be good but the essence is as I said - you wouldn't pull over under that flyover without good reason.

[manur]

I saw people going into the mosque around 7am in the morning and asked someone if I could use water to clean my mother up and open the outer garments that were stained with vomit. I took whatever time I needed to in the mosque and went to the vehicle to see an officer already issued a PCN. I showed him the bag with the clothes which were stained and smelt of vomit, I tried to show the vomit in the back where mum was sitting but wasn't interested too see when he said the PCN has been issued please appeal the PCN they will cancel it.

The PCN had already been on the screen when I arrived

[stamfordman]

This seems like a reasonable course of action to me. Let's see what HCA says.

[hcandersen]

Let's focus on what the CEO saw.

A car parked in contravention and without a driver in attendance

A passenger in the rear, the OP suggests somewhat déshabillé.

No driver.

The CEO issues a PCN.

The driver returns armed with soiled clothing.

The CEO cannot cancel the PCN which has already been issued/printed.

OP, what's your problem with the above?

If it's correct then tell your story to the authority in your challenge.

[manur]

The above is what happened!, Should I do I detailed challenge or is the one Stamfordman provided suffice as I think Stamfordman summaries the scenario nicely without over complicating things.

This post has been edited by manur: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 00:53

[hcandersen]

You need more detail than is in stamfordman's draft because you've now fleshed out your account.

But be in no doubt that you would be dealing with a sceptical authority who at the simplest level would just think you pulled over in order to pop into the mosque. You need to disabuse them of this idea.

So, ..

Have you any links with the mosque or any other reason to visit?
You refer to 'clean my mother up and open her outer garments' in the context of the mosque, but your mother was in the car, not with you.


My mother was sick and vomited on her clothes and the *** seat of the car.
I could not continue driving safely with her in a distressed state and in a closed environment which reeked of vomit.
I immediately pulled off the road at the nearest accessible and safe location.
I *** my mother and then what in detail? I removed such and such clothing and was going to put them in a bag in the boot or what? Remember, you didn't clean your mother with the water in the mosque because you didn't take her with you. Why not? Was she too distressed? We don't know.

I'm not prying, I'm trying..to help you put your best case forward and to recognise that you have to convince the authority who would only have your account and the CEO's notes. So, don't include anything which would be at variance with the notes, you need to fill in the gaps in those notes with details which only you know.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 09:00

[manur]

Sorry hca didn't see that part of your message, I took her with me to the mosque to clean up her face and gave her some water on the parts of vomit that fell on her, took her jacket off and she had a sip of water to drink. We was 10 minutes away from home so didn't need to spend that much time than needed. No other reason to go to the mosque saw people going in and asked permission to go in and they were very helpful people helped me with mum taking her to the place where we could do the above and came straight back out after finishing what I had to do.

I will try and do something detailed tonight and put it on here for tweaking. Thanks for your help guys.

[stamfordman]

Just add a paragraph with some more detail into the draft I did. I would remove the bit about a long journey and don't say anything about being near to home.

[manur]

Will do Stamfordman, once again thanks for the help guys

[manur]

just made a draft any tweaks will be much appreciated, thanks guys.

Dear TFL,

I wish to challenge PCN xxxxxx on the grounds that I was forced to stop due to circumstances beyond my control.

I was driving my mother, who is registered disabled and has a blue badge, when she became very unwell and started to vomit.
My mother was sick and vomited on her clothes and the seat of the car.
I could not continue driving safely with her in a distressed state and in a closed environment which reeked of vomit. I immediately pulled off the road at the nearest accessible and safe location which happened to be dropped footway access under the flyover in Bow Road, to attend to her.
As I came out of the vehicle, I saw people going into the nearby mosque across the road at around 7am in the morning and asked someone if I could use water to clean my mother up and open the outer garment that was stained with vomit. I took whatever time I needed to (around 5 minutes) in the mosque and went straight to the vehicle to make our way back home only to see a police support officer had already issued a PCN. I narrated the above to him I showed him the bag with the coat which was stained and smelt of vomit, I tried to show the vomit in the back where mum was sitting but wasn't interested to see when he said the PCN has been issued I cannot cancel it anymore please appeal the PCN TFL will cancel it.

I did speak to your CEO who gave the PCN, who said we could appeal.

I hope you appreciate that I would never stop unnecessarily on a red route but this was a situation where I had no alternative, and we stopped only for the time needed to ensure my mother was well enough to continue back home.

I look forward to the cancellation of this PCN.

Yours

[stamfordman]

This needs tidying up - will do tomorrow.

[manur]

Thanks Stamfordman really appreciate it

Thanks Stamfordman really appreciate it