I saw this on a poster (dated 30 April 2019) when I was at Heathrow Terminal 4 earlier today:
Subject: Speed Matrix and ANPR average Speed Cameras.
Overview/Impact:
Speed matrix and ANPR average speed cameras are being installed on the Heathrow Airport road network.
These are dual ANPR and speed enforcement cameras. They are utilised to improve security at Heathrow Airport, prevent crime and reduce speed on airport roads improving road safety.
Drivers exceeding the speed limit commit offences under the Police Reform Act 2002, section 59(1). This gives the Police the power of enforcement including the power to seize vehicles being driven in an inconsiderate or careless manor which includes speeding.
The Metropolitan Police will work in partnership with Heathrow Airport limited who reserve the right to challenge anti-social behaviour including speeding within the airport boundary.
The easiest way not to come to notice of the cameras is to obey the speed limit.
Within the airport boundaries the maximum posted speed limit is 30mph on single carriageways and 40mph on dual carriageways unless otherwise signed.
All forecourts have a maximum speed limit of 20mph
Staff car parks have a maximum speed limit of 15mph
Main Inbound and Outbound Tunnels 30mph and 20mph while in contraflow.
Your action and support is required to communicate this notice to your individual departments.
As I was leaving Terminal 4, some guys in a large silver van were just finishing the installation of a new camera on the Southern Perimeter Road between Terminal 4 and Hatton Cross. This road is 40mph and even though the road belongs to the airport, it is accessible by the public. The camera is of a design I have never seen before; it is a small yellow box with speed camera markings on it and a what appears to be a camera/flash across the top of the front face. It is the size of a ream of A4 paper that has been stood on its end and it was fixed to a pole using cable ties. I would guess that these are going up all over the Heathrow perimeter road network which is either 30mph or 40mph including the dual carriageway between the M25 and Terminal 4.
Will make someone a few quid...
Anybody know what these are? They're springing up like weeds all around Heathrow airport.
Accompanied by this letter
Sweeping statement to say drivers exceeding the speed limit all “cause, alarm, distress or annoyance”.
Over reach anyone?
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=127582 too
I know that some people think that the police are “knuckle draggers”, but when an official letter says things like “seize vehicles being driven in an inconsiderate or careless manor” - you do have to wonder!
Bearing in mind that the car parks are private property but more importantly, are barrier controlled, ie the public do not have right of access, only pass holders, are speed limits actually legally enforceable?
Heathrow Airport has byelaws restricting speeds on non-public roads to 20mph. Is a non-public car park considered to be a road?
Does anybody know what these cameras actually are?
Speed cameras?
Average speed cameras?
ANPR cameras?
All or any of the above?
One thing I can promise you is that there's virtually zero chance the 15 mph limits are enforceable: No limit below 20 mph can be imposed without the consent of the Secretary of State, and as a matter of policy the DfT will not consent to limits below 20 mph because speedometers don't have a 15 mph line, so a motorist could not know with certainty whether they were doing 14 or 16.
The signage is also not TSRGD compliant and the whole thing has a bit of a mickey mouse feeling. I wonder whether the cameras even have Home Office approval.
It might be an idea to simply ask for the TMOs (though of course none are needed on a restricted road) and make a FOI request for the Home Office approval of the cameras.
They appear to be temporary/transferable, but here's the layout of the cameras as they are currently.
although they are on private property; aren't those roadways, where road traffic acts apply?
If they are? Why are they hoping to use Section 59 notices for speeding.
Does a noisy exhaust S59 in the car park compete with the Airbus a380 Super Jumbo departing runway 09L/27R
The notice itself reads as though it is placed in a staff [sic] area, as though to prevent staff who know where they are heading, speeding past the sunseeker that is traveling the long way around the perimeter road at 20 mph and slowing to read every sign on their way.
I think I’ve worked out what they are.
They are traffic signs!
The photos don’t show it but before each of the “speed cameras” is a matrix sign showing your speed. The actual “cameras” have ‘Westcortec’ written on the side.
Somebody has had the bright idea of adding a speed camera warning sign to the speed detector element of the matrix sign to frighten everyone into believing that they are speed enforcement cameras.
The speed matrix signs were up and working long before the cameras behind them appeared. The matrix signs are self contained with the radar detector.
The new cameras, which are all of some kind of case with a handle attached and somewhat portable looking have a camera, flash and antenna on them. The ones in the staff car park are identical to the ones around the perimeter road. I also noticed today a new sign in the staff car park stating that there is now ANPR speed enforcement. How they’re going to enforce a 15 mph limit is beyond me.
Not sure how Heathrow Airport can enforce bylaws for speeding offences. Just like parking offences on bylaw regulated land, I think there is a time limit and if you can obfuscate who the driver was for at least 6 months, they cannot take further action.
However, all the staff cars that use he staff car park will be registered to the employee who works at the airport and it will be interesting to see if they start to delve into data that was never given for this purpose, to track the employee.
When the police were contacted about these cameras their reply was simply that it is the Airport Operator who has installed the cameras and it is up to them to pass on information about them. The question asked is whether these cameras are legal speed cameras or just advisory and reporting devices? Also asked was “In the event that an individual is subject to action as a consequence of your cameras, can you kindly publish the technical data and testing of these devices that demonstrate their results are of an evidentiary standard.”
So, the police have passed the buck to HAL and so far, no response from them. Can a 15mph speed be enforced?
Anyone else have a view on this?
Byelaws say:
As it's now been over two weeks, has anyone yet to receive any form of communication from the police if you've been caught speeding?
From a friend at Heathrow:
To confirm - there are not speed cameras?
They are more CCTV cameras that record speeds and are not enforceable with fines and points?
I went past two of these today and exactly like everyone else I was thinking what the hell are they?!
They are NOT speed cameras, they are CCTV, whether they can record a speed at all is doubtful, hey rely on fear and ignorance plus the ambiguous signage.
I went past Heathrow again today in very slow traffic.
I noticed some new cameras since my last visit and these ones were identified as "Westcotec Ltd" on the side (as Richy320 pointed out last year)
You can see Westcotec's website here: https://www.westcotec.co.uk/
No mention on their website of any of their products being Home Office approved though!
I had a search for Westcotec on Google and found this post of theirs from another location.
I see that ambiguous text seems to be a feature of Westcotec.
https://ibb.co/f42ygX0
Hi all!
I was wondering whether anyone had heard any further information on these devices?
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=127582
Did anyone ever receive a notice from them? Is their evidence sufficient for enforcement of a fine/points?
Thanks!
Hi there! , I am new here,
I found this post via a search engine as this morning early hours I am sure one of these camera things snapped me, I did not think i was speeding at all, i saw the lit up sign saying i was doing 46 and slowed down, then i saw that camera and i was doing under 40 but i saw the thing make a light go on and off so it definitely took a snap of me,
Does any one know if i should expect some kind of ticket please!? I would like to fight it if do and would ask for any advice ,
Many thanks
Well no-one has come here reporting any kind of ticket….
Come back to us if and when you get a ticket through the post, se the sticky in the top of the page how to post pictures of penalty charge notice or whatever it is you get.
In my useless opinion I write this
We have absolutely no choice anymore the machineries are already taking over, it has become a real life beginning of the terminator
sounds like crazy but be sensible and remind yourself of 30 years ago
This is just a rant due to to my run in
Just to update, I did not get any kid of ticket whatsoever,,,, so this was good news ,
Glad to hear it. ANPR doesn't issue speeding tickets.
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