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Posted by: wrinkly_ninja Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 15:53
Post #1344055

Hi. My friend has pointed me here for some advice.
On Tuesday I was given an fpn by and environment enforcement officer for "littering" or more prcicely "dropping a cigarette butt". The reason I'm seeking advice is that this did not happen. I don't even smoke... Has anybody got any advice for me? My options appear to be pay fine, which I won't do as I didn't commit an offence or don't pay it and go to magistrates court to appeal. Does anyone have any successful experience of this and what did they do. In going to go to the Dr's to get medical back up in terms of no signs of smoking, as well as getting a smoking/nicotine test. I will ask for evidence of the "offence" which there isn't as i asked the guy if his camera caught it and he said no... This has completely enraged me. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: misteral Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 16:08
Post #1344063

Not sure if this is the right forum.

Anyway, if you are completely innocent, and I'm not doubting you, never admit to something you didn't do.

Posted by: Neil B Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 19:34
Post #1344110

Can we see the FPN you were given please.

Posted by: wrinkly_ninja Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:11
Post #1344114

I'll try sort a pic out in a bit. Just got to blank personal info on it

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:30
Post #1344119

There doesn’t seem to be much need to see the FPN. Your story is that you didn’t discard the cigarette butt. If you opt for a court hearing then the council will have to prove to beyond a reasonable doubt that you did. Before the trial they would serve their evidence on you, which presumably will be a witness statement from the enforcement officer. Your job at trial will be to discredit his statement, by cross-examination and by introducing contrary evidence.

Posted by: andy_foster Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:48
Post #1344125

I have a feeling that a littering FPN is not default convict - in other words, if the OP does not pay it, it is up to the LA to prosecute, as opposed to FPNs under the RTOA where the penalty can simply be registered as a fine if not paid.

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:50
Post #1344126

You may well be correct. In which case they may decide that there is insufficient evidence to proceed.

Posted by: PASTMYBEST Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 00:09
Post #1344151

In London has this not become a decriminalized offence and appeal is to the E&TA

Posted by: Colin_S Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 09:58
Post #1344186

Local authorities are http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/14241211.Fifteen_charged_as_part_of_the____Don___t_Mess_With_Croydon_____Take_Pride____campaign__including_a___452_fine_for_spitting_in_the_street/ so another reason to contest the allegation.

Posted by: Neil B Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 10:38
Post #1344198

I was looking to refresh my memory on the recently implemented powers/legislation.

Posted by: stamfordman Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 13:21
Post #1344246

Did you drop something else?

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:12
Post #1344329

Fair enough. It may be that I’m out of date.

Posted by: wrinkly_ninja Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 01:32
Post #1344441

Nope. Had nothing to drop...

Posted by: cp8759 Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 02:19
Post #1344446

That's correct, it's up the to LA to prosecute and in council areas where the EPA is enforced, these are amongst the most frequent proceedings brought by local authorities.

wrinkly_ninja: There is no appeal, you're presumed innocent until proven guilty. If you've never smoked (or haven't smoked for many years), it should be fairly easy to prove. Get as many witness statements as possible from people you know, maybe get your medical records (I think the NHS records if you're a smoker or not), if you really want to go to town you could go as far as getting receipts and/or a statement from wherever you usually get your groceries to say that you never buy cigarettes (that might be seen as using a sledge hammer to crack a nut, but you're trying to avoid a criminal conviction). As you only have to create a reasonable doubt that you might be innocent, I won't say it's a walk in the park but it should be possible to get an acquittal. Of course, if there's any CCTV in the area that would be the jackpot.

As southpaw82 has said, once you challenge it, they might not even bother pursuing it.

Posted by: KH_ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 16:27
Post #1344567

I know my doctor surgery records it, although they still have me as a smoker despite telling them numerous times I haven't smoked since early 2013.

Posted by: Mayhem007 Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 10:51
Post #1346433

Normally records are changed from smoker to ex smoker. You can get an appointment with your surgeries nurse and they can carry out a co2 check. It takes about 3 to 4 weeks for your co2 levels to go down after a cessation of smoking. However, it will probably not prove that you did not have A cigarrette in the last 4 weeks. Nevertheless, a co2 check may help your defence, if needed.