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money for fuel scam - MCOL recovery/police?
fluff34567
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 11:59
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hi all,




Bit of a strange one here and looking for advise or info on best way to procede.


A very good friend of mine who lives in mainland europe was at a petrol station in mainland europe, saw a lad and the wife and baby and they were asking people for fuel money as all had been stolen in germany.. he gave them some euros, they swapped phone numbers/called each other.

Of course there was no further contact from the guy and all calls are ignored.

He gave me the reg number and I asked around/posted to various places and had an answer from a guy in a different mainland euro country with the the same story and the same reg/car from 1 day earlier.

The amount involved is substantially higher but this time the guy took note of the V5 details.

The car shows as untaxed and no insurance. On streetview the car is shown as being parked at the house thats on the V5.


The scammer is not answering the phone.


according to 192.com the name on the V5 is on the electoral role at the address - i see this through the free option.


what would you suggest - police because of the insurance issue and the cash but doubt they can do anything related to that..?

can i start a MCOL on behalf of the 2 guys that were scammed ?


Do any of the well established members have access to a data base and can check the details I have for the name address?

Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

TBH if the lad just sends the 2 victims the money it will all be forgotten about.

Thanks in advance






This post has been edited by fluff34567: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:00
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post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 11:59
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stereophoney
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:34
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I'll re-imburse them as soon as soon as the inheritance I'm waiting on from a Nigerian Prince clears my bank account.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:35
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There is zero chance of getting any money off them. Waste of time.
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StuartBu
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:39
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So the alleged offence(s) happened in non UK countries? How much money are we talking about ? Personally I'd just forget about it. If it is being driven untaxed and uninsured chances are it'll be picked up sooner or later .

This post has been edited by StuartBu: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:41
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thevaliant
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:39
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QUOTE (fluff34567 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 11:59) *
hi all,




Bit of a strange one here and looking for advise or info on best way to procede.


A very good friend of mine who lives in mainland europe was at a petrol station in mainland europe.....


It's a crime in mainland Europe (Germany?). Nothing to do with you at all, so forget about trying anything here.
Despite it being a fairly common scam, nothing will happen. Your friend was scammed, and unless you are talking over €500 (And I struggle to see how - how much is half a tank of petrol in Germany? €20-€40?) they've no chance of getting either their money back (which has already been spent) or seeing justice.

Hard lesson learnt. These people are scum, not only for doing the scam but then, when a genuine case comes along third parties won't help as they may think the genuine appeal is a scam too.
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fluff34567
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:02
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cheers for replies, total is about 400 euro give or take...( yeah im surprised at the amount also) it annoys me as the wife was in on it as well so a feckless family.

whats stopping the 2 "victims" from opening a MCOL and trying their luck, Im under no illusion they prob wont see the money but it would cause some hassle for the scammer?

note name and address is known

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The Rookie
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:05
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How much hassle do you think it would cause them?

If the car stays the other side of the channel they can probably get away without insuring and 'taxing' it.


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southpaw82
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:11
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QUOTE (fluff34567 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 11:59) *
can i start a MCOL on behalf of the 2 guys that were scammed ?


Working on the not unreasonable assumption that you’re not a lawyer, that would be a criminal offence.

QUOTE (fluff34567 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:02) *
whats stopping the 2 "victims" from opening a MCOL and trying their luck, Im under no illusion they prob wont see the money but it would cause some hassle for the scammer?

Assuming that the scammer and the registered keeper are the same person...


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DancingDad
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:16
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Judge Rinder would not take this one on.

Apart from finding the culprits, where it happened and lack of any contract (except possibly verbal), what makes you think they have any money to get back?
No point suing someone who cannot pay.

My guess is that they are not on a scam holiday in Europe but quite possibly have an Eastern European name or connections, have decided UK is not the place for them and were going home, using others to fund the trip.
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thevaliant
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:27
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QUOTE (fluff34567 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:02) *
cheers for replies, total is about 400 euro give or take...( yeah im surprised at the amount also) it annoys me as the wife was in on it as well so a feckless family.

whats stopping the 2 "victims" from opening a MCOL and trying their luck, Im under no illusion they prob wont see the money but it would cause some hassle for the scammer?

note name and address is known


I've no idea of fuel prices in the EU but €400? About £360! That's enough fuel for me to fill my tank 7 times over.
Very hard lesson learnt. £20, yes, but €400? They saw your friends coming.
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nigelbb
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:45
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:05) *
If the car stays the other side of the channel they can probably get away without insuring and 'taxing' it.

I lived in France for years with UK registered car which was properly insured with a French insurance company. There has been no road tax (vignette) in France since 2001.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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samthecat
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:57
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QUOTE (fluff34567 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:02) *
note name and address is known


A name and an address may be known however what's to say they have anything to do with the scammers? Presumably if they were out to scam as many people as possible they would be unlikely to provide legitimate details that could be used to find them later on...


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fluff34567
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:12
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:11) *
QUOTE (fluff34567 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 11:59) *
can i start a MCOL on behalf of the 2 guys that were scammed ?


Working on the not unreasonable assumption that you’re not a lawyer, that would be a criminal offence.

QUOTE (fluff34567 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:02) *
whats stopping the 2 "victims" from opening a MCOL and trying their luck, Im under no illusion they prob wont see the money but it would cause some hassle for the scammer?

Assuming that the scammer and the registered keeper are the same person...
very true SP, hence the question.

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:16) *
Judge Rinder would not take this one on.

Apart from finding the culprits, where it happened and lack of any contract (except possibly verbal), what makes you think they have any money to get back?
No point suing someone who cannot pay.

My guess is that they are not on a scam holiday in Europe but quite possibly have an Eastern European name or connections, have decided UK is not the place for them and were going home, using others to fund the trip.


A very English name and returning from mainland Europe to the UK.


QUOTE (samthecat @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:57) *
QUOTE (fluff34567 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:02) *
note name and address is known


A name and an address may be known however what's to say they have anything to do with the scammers? Presumably if they were out to scam as many people as possible they would be unlikely to provide legitimate details that could be used to find them later on...


Looking on street view the same car is parked in the drive so fairly but of course not a definite certainty. The guy I know called a business next to the address and the name and description of the scammer was confirmed by the business.

Well anyway, will let the guys know they have no chance of getting anything unless they decide turn up with "the lads" but of course that wouldnt be looked upon favourably.

This post has been edited by fluff34567: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 08:57
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 19:44
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:45) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:05) *
If the car stays the other side of the channel they can probably get away without insuring and 'taxing' it.

I lived in France for years with UK registered car which was properly insured with a French insurance company. There has been no road tax (vignette) in France since 2001.

Must have been before the days of continuous insurance enforcement.


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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 21:11
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You are assuming, I would think incorrectly, that the address on the V5C is their current address and they have not moved without updating the DVLA. Google Streetview will be out of date.

Note they did not show something like a driving licence with a verifiable name on.

Small claims do not have the investigative power a criminal case does. If someone different is at the address they will just return the court papers. MCOL will keep your fee. Small claims only works when you have a definite address for someone.

Honestly you are throwing good time and money after bad.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 21:10
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nigelbb
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 06:40
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 19:44) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:45) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:05) *
If the car stays the other side of the channel they can probably get away without insuring and 'taxing' it.

I lived in France for years with UK registered car which was properly insured with a French insurance company. There has been no road tax (vignette) in France since 2001.

Must have been before the days of continuous insurance enforcement.

It was as it happens as I returned to the UK before continuous insurance enforcement was introduced in 2011. However when I took the car to France I declared it permanently exported rather than SORN which in retrospect was an error as it meant more of a hassle when I re-imported the car on returning to the UK.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 06:41


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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cp8759
post Mon, 12 Mar 2018 - 01:18
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 06:40) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 19:44) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:45) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:05) *
If the car stays the other side of the channel they can probably get away without insuring and 'taxing' it.

I lived in France for years with UK registered car which was properly insured with a French insurance company. There has been no road tax (vignette) in France since 2001.

Must have been before the days of continuous insurance enforcement.

It was as it happens as I returned to the UK before continuous insurance enforcement was introduced in 2011. However when I took the car to France I declared it permanently exported rather than SORN which in retrospect was an error as it meant more of a hassle when I re-imported the car on returning to the UK.

Well a SORN'ed car doesn't comply with the Geneva Convention so you couldn't legally drive it abroad anyway.


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nigelbb
post Mon, 12 Mar 2018 - 08:03
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 12 Mar 2018 - 01:18) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 06:40) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 19:44) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:45) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:05) *
If the car stays the other side of the channel they can probably get away without insuring and 'taxing' it.

I lived in France for years with UK registered car which was properly insured with a French insurance company. There has been no road tax (vignette) in France since 2001.

Must have been before the days of continuous insurance enforcement.

It was as it happens as I returned to the UK before continuous insurance enforcement was introduced in 2011. However when I took the car to France I declared it permanently exported rather than SORN which in retrospect was an error as it meant more of a hassle when I re-imported the car on returning to the UK.

Well a SORN'ed car doesn't comply with the Geneva Convention so you couldn't legally drive it abroad anyway.

Strictly of course the vehicle doesn't have to be SORNed as it's not in the UK but it would be less hassle for the RK to do this. Unfortunately the DVLA don't allow the vehicle to be registered as temporarily exported which would be the ideal solution.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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cp8759
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 17:12
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 12 Mar 2018 - 08:03) *
Strictly of course the vehicle doesn't have to be SORNed as it's not in the UK but it would be less hassle for the RK to do this. Unfortunately the DVLA don't allow the vehicle to be registered as temporarily exported which would be the ideal solution.

To be driven abroad the vehicle must be legal to drive in its country of registration, so a UK car in France must have UK tax, insurance and (if required) a valid MOT.

Of course, whether the French police would care is another matter, but for example when I've driven into the EU from outside the EU's external border, MOT, V5C and insurance had to be shown before they'd let us in.


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nigelbb
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 11:32
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 17:12) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 12 Mar 2018 - 08:03) *
Strictly of course the vehicle doesn't have to be SORNed as it's not in the UK but it would be less hassle for the RK to do this. Unfortunately the DVLA don't allow the vehicle to be registered as temporarily exported which would be the ideal solution.

To be driven abroad the vehicle must be legal to drive in its country of registration, so a UK car in France must have UK tax, insurance and (if required) a valid MOT.

Of course, whether the French police would care is another matter, but for example when I've driven into the EU from outside the EU's external border, MOT, V5C and insurance had to be shown before they'd let us in.

Perhaps they were more innocent days but 15-20 years ago when I lived on the Côte d'Azur le fllcs were perfectly happy with a UK registered car with French insurance & a current contrôle technique.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 11:33


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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