PCN 21r - Residents parking but suspended bay while I was away |
PCN 21r - Residents parking but suspended bay while I was away |
Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 16:01
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 28 Sep 2018 Member No.: 100,097 |
Hi,
This morning I came back to my flat in London having been away for the week to find 3 PCN on the front of my car. The car was parked in my usual spot outside my flat as I have a residents parking permit. Initially I thought the warden had made a mistake until I reviewed the evidence online - seems some works had been undertaken on my road and my car was parked in a suspended area. When I parked the car there late on Monday evening the notice may have been there but it certainly wasn't visible to me and as a resident I don't tend to go looking around for signs every time I park my car. It looks like it is attached to a lamppost further down the road so it would be highly unlikely that I would notice it in the dark. I have drafted a response but I would love some advice before I contest the charges: To whom it may concern, I returned to my vehicle on Saturday 13th at 9:00am having been away since the evening of Monday 8th to find 3 parking penalty notices on the window. My vehicle XXXXXXX was parked in a residents bay, I am a registered permit holder and my reference number is XXXXXXX. I have reviewed the evidence online and can see that a parking suspension notice has gone up since I have been away. Firstly I have been out of London visiting my mother, this is evidenced by 3 tickets being issued and none of them being removed until my return. Secondly, had the notice been there, it would have been very hard for me to see it in the dark as it was attached to a lamppost further up the street from where I park facing into the road. As a resident who always parks here I tend not make a thorough check of the area every time I park and I was not made aware of the intended works by other means. I always park here and therefore had no concerns about leaving my car there for the week. I am therefore contesting this ticket on the grounds that I was legitimately parked in a residents bay and the restrictions were put in place in my absence. Further to this the evidence suggests that when the notice was put up it was further down the street than my flat so I would have had no way of seeing it in the dark had it been there on the evening of the 8th. At the time I saw no evidence of anything to prevent me from parking in my usual space. Kind Regards, X I would love some help with this case as otherwise I'm staring down the barrel of £195 in fines - not something I am particularly happy about! Also if there is anything on the pictures that I need to amend please let me know. Many thanks in advance. |
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Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 16:01
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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 22:34
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#121
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
We have had numerous other threads where the authority claim to be acting under a blanket direction from ETA to discover the basis of owners' claims in WSs regarding 'made reps'.
This is not new. I don't agree with it, but it seems to be accepted. And in this case it would be very sensible for the OP to accede because IF they have proof of service, then that's it, fin, the end. There is nothing to be gained from waiting for a direction from the adjudicator to provide exactly the same evidence as is being requested, particularly as the OP appears to have a preference for not going to tribunal. This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 22:35 |
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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 23:41
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#122
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I don't agree with it, but it seems to be accepted. PMB has previously posted a case where the adjudicator did not accept this. Besides, that approach might make sense where the representations were lost in the post. If the reps were safely received by the council but were later mislaid, the situation is materially different. For all we know, the council might mislay the representations again. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 - 06:50
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#123
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I have just reread the report that sets out the new policy for want of a better term.
page 23 here https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...-16%20final.pdf I would go one step further and send the representation and a further submission re the PI of both failing to consider and early service of a CC referring to this report as authority. This case 2170317559 The adjudicator berates the authority for not referring to the tribunal , but is he correct. ? its seems to be regulation vs policy -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 - 10:29
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#124
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
OP, you have until 28 th August to send your reps to the council.
Contact them and get an email address for sending and the name of the person to whom you speak.(there are references in the letter, but you've obscured them) And when you get the email address, send a copy of your reps and the proof of service with this covering email: Dear Sir, PCN ******* I refer to the above, your letter dated 31 July and my subsequent conversation with ** on ****. As requested, I have emailed a copy of my representations and proof of service comprising ***. As you will see, the representations were served on the council at the specified address and fully in accordance with the instructions in the NTO. Furthermore, as the 56-day period has elapsed the authority have no option but to cancel the PCN (your NTO refers). It now lies with the authority to deal with this matter at an early stage. Alternatively, you may refer the matter to the adjudicator who, in the light of the proof of service would be obliged to allow any appeal and unlikely to be well disposed to an authority adding to ETA's workload in such a way. I would of course make a submission for costs in such circumstances. But OP, just humour us... Let us see a copy of your reps and proof of service. This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 - 10:30 |
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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 - 10:46
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#125
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
+1, send what hcandersen has drafted.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 - 10:59
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#126
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
+1, send what hcandersen has drafted. we are all in agreement -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 - 13:54
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#127
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
I am dreading the OP posting reps and proof of posting in respect of one of the other PCNs!
OP, the suspense is killing me. |
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Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 14:32
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#128
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Member Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 28 Sep 2018 Member No.: 100,097 |
Hi guys, im very sorry for taking so long to reply. For some reason I wasn't receiving email notifications when the topic was updated as I had before. Also had a lot of things going on personally so I took my eye off the ball with this.
To update I resent the representations and proof that they had been received the first time around - I unfortunately missed your advice to hold off and email instead I have now received another notice of rejection and the next step would be appeal at tribunal. Woild it be best to follow the same procedure as before and appeal but write 'represe rations to follow' then wait to see if they are actually going to contest? I will upload the notice of rejection when I get home from work tonight and once again I'm sorry I missed all your helpful comments regarding this final PCN. |
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Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 16:40
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#129
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Member Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 28 Sep 2018 Member No.: 100,097 |
Latest notice of rejection for PCN 2:
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Sat, 28 Sep 2019 - 15:12
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#130
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
So register the appeal with the tribunal and let's see if Lambeth contests.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 30 Sep 2019 - 08:48
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#131
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Member Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 28 Sep 2018 Member No.: 100,097 |
Thank you, I have registered the appeal so fingers crossed it goes the way of the other two and they decide not to contest.
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Mon, 30 Sep 2019 - 10:41
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#132
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
????
The OP made reps in time. The authority did not issue a NOR but instead claimed to have not received them The OP received an OfR which was successfully challenged The authority (not the OP) were required to refer the matter to the adjudicator They didn't, instead they wrote to the OP requesting proof of submitted reps so that '....we can refer the matter to the ETA' Having received a copy of the reps and proof of posting - presumably- they have issued a NOR And to make matters worse the OP has registered an appeal against a NOR issued on 10 Sept Mmmmmmmm! OP, do not just let this hang. Tidy up matters. To the authority: Dear Sir, PCN ************ I refer to the above, your letter dated 31 July and your purported NOR dated 10 Sept. As regards the former, I refer you to para. 2 in which you state that on receipt of my representations and proof of posting you would 'refer the matter to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators'. As regards the latter, this shows that instead of registering the appeal as you undertook to do, and according to regulations you were obliged to do, you issued an improper NOR. Given that I am not able to place any reliance on your undertakings, I have registered an appeal - case no. ******. Hugs To ETA Dear Sir, Case No. ********** I refer to the above which I registered on ****. I also refer to the enclosed letter dated *** to the enforcement authority, Lambeth. I registered following receipt of their so-called NOR purely to ensure that the matter was referred to the adjudicator. It does not imply any acceptance on my part that the NOR was procedurally correct. I apologise if this was incorrect, but I felt that, given their track record, I could not rely on the authority in this case. Yours... |
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