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Park Watch PCN
Olifran
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 19:56
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can I have your opinions on this. I have been sent a letter as the registered keeper.

This post has been edited by Olifran: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 06:57
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post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 19:56
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Umkomaas
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 19:51
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QUOTE
Are people expected to look around the car park for the parking conditions/displays?

Afraid so, and increasingly so. The signage is the purported contract the driver enters into with the PPC on entering the car park and parking.

People have to seriously wise up on this, or risk years of grief.
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Olifran
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 22:02
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QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 20:51) *
QUOTE
Are people expected to look around the car park for the parking conditions/displays?

Afraid so, and increasingly so. The signage is the purported contract the driver enters into with the PPC on entering the car park and parking.

People have to seriously wise up on this, or risk years of grief.


So a defence of the ‘sign was hidden from the individuals view where the bike was photographed’ will not wash?

See my previous pics for location of signage.
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Olifran
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 06:52
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I think il will email the land owners and complain that money was being spent at their retail outlet and that these predatory companies are taking advantage. I’ve read that sometimes they get the ticket cancelled if you object strongly enough.
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Sheffield Dave
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 08:09
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The conceit is that (as per their trade association's code of practice), there is a sign at the entrance to the car park warning you that this is private land and that terms and conditions apply. This is supposed to be enough to alert you and make you seek out further signs within the car park where you're supposed to carefully study the terms and conditions, and then either accept them by the act of parking, or if you wish to reject them, by immediately leaving. Yes, its a nonsense, but judges are generally happy with it.
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Umkomaas
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:25
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QUOTE (Olifran @ Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 22:02) *
QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 20:51) *
QUOTE
Are people expected to look around the car park for the parking conditions/displays?

Afraid so, and increasingly so. The signage is the purported contract the driver enters into with the PPC on entering the car park and parking.

People have to seriously wise up on this, or risk years of grief.


So a defence of the ‘sign was hidden from the individuals view where the bike was photographed’ will not wash?

See my previous pics for location of signage.

That isn't what you asked.

If a sign is hidden from view (for example by bushes, tree growth etc), then that can be one point of defence if a court claim is made, but the discipline of reading signage in car parks (council or private) is a discipline that everyone should become familiar with. I honestly believe that it should be introduced somewhere in the driving test theory documentation, and tested. Almost every private car park is now a bear-trap!
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Olifran
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 11:20
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Here is the sign.

This post has been edited by Olifran: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 11:22
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ManxRed
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 11:45
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Well, I can't see 'parking on a footpath' as a contravention.


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Jlc
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 11:55
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Park within the white lines of the parking bay only?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 11:56


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ManxRed
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 12:18
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 12:55) *
Park within the white lines of the parking bay only?


Not sure, from the diagram that seems to be discouraging parking across the white lines. If that was the contravention I'd expect the PCN to state 'not parking wholly within the white lines of a parking bay' but it doesn't.

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 12:19


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Sheffield Dave
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 14:47
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"parks or causes an obstruction to any pathway" is, I think, fairly clear.
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ManxRed
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 14:58
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Is it causing an obstruction? See photo in PCN. Again, why is the contravention not 'Causing an obstruction'?


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Sheffield Dave
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 18:40
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The phrase is "parks" or "causes an obstruction". The bike is parked on a pathway.
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Olifran
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 20:45
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QUOTE (Sheffield Dave @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 19:40) *
The phrase is "parks" or "causes an obstruction". The bike is parked on a pathway.


So you don’t believe there is a satisfactory defence to this ticket?
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Sheffield Dave
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 21:33
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QUOTE (Olifran @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 21:45) *
QUOTE (Sheffield Dave @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 19:40) *
The phrase is "parks" or "causes an obstruction". The bike is parked on a pathway.


So you don’t believe there is a satisfactory defence to this ticket?

No, I'm just disagreeing with other forum members that parking on the pavement isn't a breach of the T&C, so that specific defence may not wash. Other defences, which more experienced posters than me may come up with, may wash.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 06:27
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Playing devil's advocate, the sign says park within the white lines of THE bay (i.e. the bay you are in) not A bay, so that only applies if you're in a bay.

But yes causing an obstruction to a footway seems to cover it (noting that 'parks an obstruction to a footway' (without an causes as it's an or) is meaningless).

However for PoFA it's the wrong breach (Contravention is for council PCN, shouldn't be used in this forum) so a Keeper is incorrectly informed and can't respond to it, so no PoFA IMO.



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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Olifran
post Tue, 15 Oct 2019 - 17:51
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The land owners response to my email :

Dear Mr *****

The below email has been re-directed for my attention.

Car park management at Deepdale is outsourced to a third party (Park Watch), as landlords for the property we are constantly reviewing the work practices of this company to ensure they comply with all associated Best Practices.

I have also spoken with the designated Park Watch employee who issued the parking charge notice, who assures me the use of ‘predatory tactics’ is something she does not adopt.

The vehicle in question (motorcycle) was parked in a designated ‘No Parking Area’ – public realm. There were ample parking spaces available in the designated parking areas, which could and should have been used. Ample signs are also displayed throughout the park to illustrate the adopted park restrictions.

Not only did the above contravene the parking regulations, it also promoted a health and safety hazard for those using the designated public realm area.

In light of my findings, I’m totally supportive of Park Watch’s actions.

If you feel your PCN has been incorrectly issued, you can always adopt your statutory right of appeal through the relevant Appeals process
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Olifran
post Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 12:51
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Does the PCN need to show how long the bike was parked to be inline with POFA. As the ticket doesn’t state the length of stay?
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