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MOT failure is it worth repairing
Korting
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 09:18
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My Citroen failed its MOT and I'm wondering whether to scrap it or repair it. Its current MOT is valid until mid May.

Its a 2003 52 reg C5 diesel and it failed on suspension, brakes and windscreen.

The most important and expensive is the suspension where the hydrolastic system is leaking because of a broken return pipe. I've been quoted £440 for the brakes (provided the callipers aren't seized), the and the suspension. The windscreen can be done under insurance. I reckon the whole lot cost around £600.

Now the car is worth around £300 so on that basis it wouldn't be worth it.

But

I live in a London Suburb and though I dont drive into Central London, the expanded ULEZ is expected to come into force in 2021.

So to replace the car with another diesel would mean I have to buy a 2015 or later car I need a diesel as I do around 18K=20K miles per year.

There's no point in buying another pre 2010 car as I would need to fit a new hands free phone kit.

So do I repair it or scrap it?
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post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 09:18
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facade
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 09:39
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Repair it if that is all that is wrong, and you might get another 2 or 3 years out of it.

You are not going to replace it for £600. (or £200 a year if it lasts 3 years)
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The Rookie
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 10:43
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It may be worth £300, but if you buy a £300 its not uncommon to have top spend out £150-300 to get it 'right', this way you have a known quantity.

If you do repair, do so with the mental mindset that you WILL keep the car to 2021 and it will almost certainly work out cheaper than buying a 'new' £300 car and keeping it those 3 years.


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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 13:17
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Buy a petrol car and get an LPG conversion, with that sort of mileage the conversion will pay for itself in 18 months and your running costs will be cheaper than diesel.


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nigelbb
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 15:14
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 14:17) *
Buy a petrol car and get an LPG conversion, with that sort of mileage the conversion will pay for itself in 18 months and your running costs will be cheaper than diesel.

Do people still have LPG conversions? I thought that fad had come & gone.


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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 15:30
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 16:14) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 14:17) *
Buy a petrol car and get an LPG conversion, with that sort of mileage the conversion will pay for itself in 18 months and your running costs will be cheaper than diesel.

Do people still have LPG conversions? I thought that fad had come & gone.

Yes it saves me around £3k a year in fuel duty, it's a pretty straightforward form of tax avoidance. I even get double points on my Morrisons Miles card, it's just a shame most of the stuff you can buy from Morrisons with the resulting vouchers isn't great. I think diesel cars are a fad and they're on their way out now.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 15:30


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Korting
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 21:05
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One of the reasons I'm reluctant to repair it is because we had a very good Volvo where I'd spent over £1000 on maintenance and a drunk driver crashed into it,
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 22:31
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QUOTE (Korting @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 22:05) *
One of the reasons I'm reluctant to repair it is because we had a very good Volvo where I'd spent over £1000 on maintenance and a drunk driver crashed into it,

As I said, buy a petrol car and then run it on LPG, in the long run it will save you a fortune.


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DancingDad
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 22:40
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Get the spanners out and fix it yourself smile.gif
Far cheaper.


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nigelbb
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 08:35
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 16:30) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 16:14) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 14:17) *
Buy a petrol car and get an LPG conversion, with that sort of mileage the conversion will pay for itself in 18 months and your running costs will be cheaper than diesel.

Do people still have LPG conversions? I thought that fad had come & gone.

Yes it saves me around £3k a year in fuel duty, it's a pretty straightforward form of tax avoidance. I even get double points on my Morrisons Miles card, it's just a shame most of the stuff you can buy from Morrisons with the resulting vouchers isn't great. I think diesel cars are a fad and they're on their way out now.

A few years ago I looked at an LPG conversion for my 4.6L V8 Range Rover & decided in the end that any potential fuel savings were outweighed by the disadvantages e.g. loss of load space or spare wheel, chances of completely destroying the engine etc.

The savings to be made by using LPG are not half as much as they were 10-15 years ago as the price relative to petrol has risen quite a bit.

I now run a Smart as my main car & use the Range Rover for only a few thousand miles per year so it would take years to recoup any savings & I would rather pay just a bit more

There are few people doing LPG conversions now. There used to be many more but they have all disappeared along with any warranties. It's difficult to find a reliable installer.


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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glasgow_bhoy
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 15:09
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I wouldn't touch an LPG car- main dealers won't like them come trade in time, assuming you do need to trade it in 2021. Whilst there are probably more places in London selling it, LPG isn't too readily available AFAIK (apparantly 12 places sell it in the Glasgow area out of what I'd estimate to be 100 petrol stations... but I know two of the places listed on the 'getlpg' website no longer sell it so its now 10 max- and nowhere within 15 miles of me).

If I were you I'd look at what else *might* need done in the next 3 years on the car and how many miles you'll do over that time. 60k miles on a car which is already 16 years old is a lot- will it last?

If it were me, I'd look at a cheap PCP on a used car. I pay less than £100 a month for a 3 year old diesel Golf with 2 years aftermarket warranty and 3 years servicing/MOT. Its £0 road tax. I get 12k a year in it, and each extra 1k I do costs just over £20. If you could get a deal similar to this over 3 years, you would be laughing. Or failing that, look at some of the cheap deals on leasing sites for brand new cars- there are some ridiculously good deals out there right now.
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cp8759
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 17:12
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 09:35) *
A few years ago I looked at an LPG conversion for my 4.6L V8 Range Rover & decided in the end that any potential fuel savings were outweighed by the disadvantages e.g. loss of load space or spare wheel, chances of completely destroying the engine etc.

The savings to be made by using LPG are not half as much as they were 10-15 years ago as the price relative to petrol has risen quite a bit.

Personally I find estate cars are better than 4x4s, I have an estate and even with a 70 litre tank I have more boot space than a hatchback and haven't had to move the spare wheel. As for destroying the engine, that's absurd, as LPG is a much leaner fuel and it has virtually no particulates at all, the wear and tear on the engine will be less than petrol. I don't know where you last bought LPG from, but around where I live Morrisons sells it for 56p a litre, while petrolprices.com tells me the average for unleaded is £1.213 and the cheapest anywhere near me is £1.157, so LPG is still less than half the price.


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The Rookie
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 18:58
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Youve ignored the lack of valve lubrication, some engines really suffer on LPG without a lube (either something like flash lube or a system which uses dual fuel under load) such as the Subaru EJ, while others such as the most BMWs are fine.

I presume you meant a cleaner not a leaner fuel!

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 19:10


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cp8759
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 21:38
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 19:58) *
Youve ignored the lack of valve lubrication, some engines really suffer on LPG without a lube (either something like flash lube or a system which uses dual fuel under load) such as the Subaru EJ, while others such as the most BMWs are fine.

My old Renault engine packed up after 252,000 miles so I can't complaint.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 19:58) *
I presume you meant a cleaner not a leaner fuel!

yes i did


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nigelbb
post Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 08:31
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 22:38) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 19:58) *
Youve ignored the lack of valve lubrication, some engines really suffer on LPG without a lube (either something like flash lube or a system which uses dual fuel under load) such as the Subaru EJ, while others such as the most BMWs are fine.

My old Renault engine packed up after 252,000 miles so I can't complaint.

Renault used to sell LPG versions of various models so I assume that many Renault engines were designed for LPG unlike the 1960s Buick derived V8 in my P38A Range Rover.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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s360
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 14:48
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QUOTE (Korting @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 09:18) *
My Citroen failed its MOT and I'm wondering whether to scrap it or repair it. Its current MOT is valid until mid May.


Not any more it's not. AFAIK If you submitted your car for an mot and it failed then that takes the place of your previous one. Ergo you now have no mot.
As for repair or replace I would repair.
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Fredd
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 15:36
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QUOTE (s360 @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 15:48) *
Not any more it's not. AFAIK If you submitted your car for an mot and it failed then that takes the place of your previous one. Ergo you now have no mot.

You might want to have a read of this thread.


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DancingDad
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 16:31
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 09:31) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 22:38) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 19:58) *
Youve ignored the lack of valve lubrication, some engines really suffer on LPG without a lube (either something like flash lube or a system which uses dual fuel under load) such as the Subaru EJ, while others such as the most BMWs are fine.

My old Renault engine packed up after 252,000 miles so I can't complaint.

Renault used to sell LPG versions of various models so I assume that many Renault engines were designed for LPG unlike the 1960s Buick derived V8 in my P38A Range Rover.


Mate of mine has a classic V8 Range Rover with LPG conversion.
Been running it that way for about ten years and it's not blown up yet.

I'm still trying to work out lack of valve lubrication if anyone can explain???
AFAIK, valves get lube from the oil system and petrol has little if any lubrication properties.
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s360
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 19:24
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 16:36) *
QUOTE (s360 @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 15:48) *
Not any more it's not. AFAIK If you submitted your car for an mot and it failed then that takes the place of your previous one. Ergo you now have no mot.

You might want to have a read of this thread.


Interesting, thanks for that. Think i read it on an RAC blog or some such so just goes to show how easy it is for misinformation to spread, even when its from normally reliable sources.
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Korting
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 22:58
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Its going in tomorrow, one of the biggest problems apparently is corrosion on the rear brake callipers, apparently it can be a right b****r to repair and could cost an extra £300 or so.

I'll let you all know how I get on.
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