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MS90 Conviction please help
Machio26
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 11:32
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I found out yesterday that I've been "convicted" of an MS90 and hit with 6 points on my licence and £660 fine. The date of the offence was 24/12/2017, and the conviction was on 24/07/2018, I moved address on 17/08/2017 but never bothered to update my address on my licence or V5C (my own fault just being lazy), I've phoned the magistrates court which issued the fine and they've advised me to contact my nearest magistrates court to make a statutory declaration, when I did, I was given a date (4th of OCT 2018) to appear in court and make my statutory declaration and I was advised to think about how I am going to plead to the original speeding offence and the failure to give information to identify a driver, my query is how should I plead to both offences? I am more than happy to take the speeding offence, the 3 points and whatever fine they give compared to having 6 points and a £660 fine! any advice would be appreciated!
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post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 11:32
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The Rookie
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 12:07
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It can be hard to do a deal to plead guilty to speeding in exchange for the failing to furnish being dropped at a stat' dec' hearing as a prosecutor may not be there.

If there is no prosecutor present then you have to plead not guilty to both and go to a trial when the deal can be agreed.


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Machio26
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 12:51
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Thanks. I have one more question, I "became aware" of the charge on the 12th of September (yesterday) and the date for the Stat Declaration is the 4th, this just outside of the 21 day period when you're supposed to file for a statutory declaration, should I phone the court back and ask for an earlier date?
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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 12:52
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I don't think that is an issue, as long as you apply to the court for a SD within 21 days you will be OK.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 12:53
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Its not an issue, they HAVE to accept one made within 21 days, they don't outside that, but the courts recognise that its not always possible for them to provide dates within the 21 days, we've not heard of any being rejected at all under those circumstances (and some have been a lot later by the court date that than).


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southpaw82
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 12:57
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QUOTE (Machio26 @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:51) *
Thanks. I have one more question, I "became aware" of the charge on the 12th of September (yesterday) and the date for the Stat Declaration is the 4th, this just outside of the 21 day period when you're supposed to file for a statutory declaration, should I phone the court back and ask for an earlier date?

I think a court would be hard pushed (and Wednesbury unreasonable) to deny your declaration because they put you out of time.


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NewJudge
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 14:13
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QUOTE (Machio26 @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:51) *
Thanks. I have one more question, I "became aware" of the charge on the 12th of September (yesterday) and the date for the Stat Declaration is the 4th, this just outside of the 21 day period when you're supposed to file for a statutory declaration, should I phone the court back and ask for an earlier date?

It's not an issue. If the question ("why are you making the declaration out of time?") arises you simply explain that it was the first date the court could offer you.



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:07) *
It can be hard to do a deal to plead guilty to speeding in exchange for the failing to furnish being dropped at a stat' dec' hearing as a prosecutor may not be there.

If there is no prosecutor present then you have to plead not guilty to both and go to a trial when the deal can be agreed.

You may be able to have the matter dealt with on the day (by doing the "deal") as in some areas now (I don't know how many other than it is at least two) the SD's are listed on Traffic Court days (which may explain why you have been given a date so far ahead). That means there will be a prosecutor available with whom you should be able to negotiate. Is the court where you are doing your SD in the same area in which the original offence occurred?
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Machio26
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 15:44
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 15:13) *
QUOTE (Machio26 @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:51) *
Thanks. I have one more question, I "became aware" of the charge on the 12th of September (yesterday) and the date for the Stat Declaration is the 4th, this just outside of the 21 day period when you're supposed to file for a statutory declaration, should I phone the court back and ask for an earlier date?

It's not an issue. If the question ("why are you making the declaration out of time?") arises you simply explain that it was the first date the court could offer you.



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:07) *
It can be hard to do a deal to plead guilty to speeding in exchange for the failing to furnish being dropped at a stat' dec' hearing as a prosecutor may not be there.

If there is no prosecutor present then you have to plead not guilty to both and go to a trial when the deal can be agreed.

You may be able to have the matter dealt with on the day (by doing the "deal") as in some areas now (I don't know how many other than it is at least two) the SD's are listed on Traffic Court days (which may explain why you have been given a date so far ahead). That means there will be a prosecutor available with whom you should be able to negotiate. Is the court where you are doing your SD in the same area in which the original offence occurred?




The court offered me the 28th of September but I cannot make that day so the next available day was the 4th of OCT

The court that issued the offence is Lincoln Magistrates Court, I live in Norfolk so I will be attending Norwich Magistrates Court
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NewJudge
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 16:34
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QUOTE (Machio26 @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 16:44) *
The court that issued the offence is Lincoln Magistrates Court, I live in Norfolk so I will be attending Norwich Magistrates Court

Then there is a likelihood that the prosecutor will not have the details of your case. In that eventuality the court should not realistically expect you to enter a plea (since they cannot explain what you are accused of). But it seems that some courts do. If that is so you will have to do as Rookie suggests - plead Not Guilty to both charges and have a trial date set. You can then attempt to negotiate the deal on trial day.
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Machio26
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 16:41
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I'm scared to death of pleading not guilty to the speeding offence then if found guilty I would also be charged with perjury.
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NewJudge
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 16:46
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QUOTE (Machio26 @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 17:41) *
I'm scared to death of pleading not guilty to the speeding offence then if found guilty I would also be charged with perjury.

People do not get charged with perjury simply for pleading Not Guilty but then subsequently convicted!

The deal that has been explained is the only realistic way to progress this. You cannot at present be convicted of speeding as there is no evidence that you were driving. Your Not Guilty plea to it would result in your acquittal if things were left as they are. Your offer to plead guilty to it only comes in exchange for the more serious charge being dropped.
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andy_foster
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 20:06
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QUOTE (Machio26 @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 17:41) *
I'm scared to death of pleading not guilty to the speeding offence then if found guilty I would also be charged with perjury.


Complete and utter twaddle! You have a constitutional right to plead not guilty regardless of whether or not you are actually guilty, or how much evidence they have. It is for the prosecution to prove their case, not for you to prove your innocence. If you were to subsequently deliberately give materially false evidence under oath/affirmation, that would be perjury.

The 'tactical' issue is that you can later change a 'not guilty' plea to guilty (ideally after doing a deal with the prosecutor), but if you plead guilty you will be convicted and cannot do a deal with the prosecutor to somehow be 'unconvicted'.


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Machio26
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 21:26
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After doing lots of research on here, I gather this is how it should go:
Make Statutory declaration, plead not guilty to both offences
When given next court date, arrive early, seek out the prosecutor and make deal that I would plead guilty to speeding offence if failure to identify is dropped. Is this correct?
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Logician
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 23:12
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QUOTE (Machio26 @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 22:26) *
After doing lots of research on here, I gather this is how it should go: Make Statutory declaration, plead not guilty to both offences When given next court date, arrive early, seek out the prosecutor and make deal that I would plead guilty to speeding offence if failure to identify is dropped. Is this correct?


That is how it goes.



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southpaw82
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 11:31
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QUOTE (Machio26 @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 17:41) *
I'm scared to death of pleading not guilty to the speeding offence then if found guilty I would also be charged with perjury.

Considering you aren’t under oath when you enter your plea that would be quite a feat.


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Machio26
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 12:29
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I have just one more query, are there any reasons why the statutory declaration might get rejected? And secondly I've been advised by a solicitor that because the case was at Lincolnshire magistrates court when I go to Norwich magistrates court I won't be asked to enter a plea all I'll be doing is the statutory declaration, is this right?
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NewJudge
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 12:43
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QUOTE (Machio26 @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 13:29) *
I have just one more query, are there any reasons why the statutory declaration might get rejected?

No. There's nothing for them to accept or reject and they have no decision to make. The court is simply witnessing your declaration. So long as it is in the correct form of words (the court's Legal Advisor will see to that) and so long as you are aware that making a false declaration can lead to prosecution (ditto) it will be recorded.


QUOTE (Machio26 @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 13:29) *
And secondly I've been advised by a solicitor that because the case was at Lincolnshire magistrates court when I go to Norwich magistrates court I won't be asked to enter a plea all I'll be doing is the statutory declaration, is this right?

Very possibly. It varies from area to area and some courts are now dealing with a plea following an SD even though they were not the court where the original conviction took place.
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Machio26
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 14:29
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Should I ring the court and ask them if they'll be asking me to enter a plea after my SD ?
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Logician
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 14:38
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QUOTE (Machio26 @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 15:29) *
Should I ring the court and ask them if they'll be asking me to enter a plea after my SD ?


Why? If they do you plead not guilty, and they either give you a date for a trial or say you will be notified, if they do not ask you say nothing. They are not going to launch into a trial there and then.



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Machio26
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 04:25
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Sorry for the late reply everyone. Here's an update for anyone interested, I showed up to court at 1pm my appointment was at 2 but got called in at 3.30 (what a long wait) I made my stat dec and immediately after they asked how do I plead firstly to the speeding, to which (against all advice given here) I pleaded guilty as I could not bring myself to say not guilty, to my surprise they dropped the S172 there and then and all I got was 3 points and £100 fine so not too bad at all.

I have one more query, on the 15/09/2018 I used the GOV.UK online service to tell the DVLA my car was written off and I entered the date of sale as 12/09/2018 because that's when admiral called to say the car was a write off and that they were going to pay me for it, admiral did not pay me until yesterday because they were waiting for the MS90 to clear, my question is do I need to ring the DVLA and explain to them what's happened and that the date of sale is 18th of OCT not 12th of September or is it not that important?

Many thanks
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