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Possible changes to mobile usage, Threads merged
morrisman
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 08:31
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Proposed changes to close the videoing/picture taking loophole

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201...s/2329/2329.pdf
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post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 08:31
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The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 10:04
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I ride past a queue of around 20 cars most evenings, in that queue I will almost always pass 1 or 2 using their phone, including while creeping towards the junction, most are not on calls but using it for 'messaging'/SM/music purposes so actively looking at it (so worse ironically than being on a call with it held to your ear).

Simply put there aren't enough being caught for the law to be a deterrent. For me that's down to police forces not using resources effectively, for example in Oz they use Police cyclists/motorbikes to do what I do, ride past a queue and pull those breaking the law, super efficient based on my experience they could easily do 15/hour!

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 10:10


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Ocelot
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 11:52
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The government plans to close a legal loophole that has allowed drivers who use mobile phones to film or take photographs to escape prosecution.

It is illegal for drivers to call or text on hand-held phones but some have dodged punishment for taking photos.

In July, a man overturned a conviction for filming a crash, saying he was not using his phone "to communicate".

The government aims to revise the laws to also include browsing the internet and searching playlists while driving.

It says the current legislation has fallen behind advances in smartphone technology.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50250730
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cp8759
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 12:30
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 10:04) *
I ride past a queue of around 20 cars most evenings, in that queue I will almost always pass 1 or 2 using their phone, including while creeping towards the junction, most are not on calls but using it for 'messaging'/SM/music purposes so actively looking at it (so worse ironically than being on a call with it held to your ear).

Simply put there aren't enough being caught for the law to be a deterrent. For me that's down to police forces not using resources effectively, for example in Oz they use Police cyclists/motorbikes to do what I do, ride past a queue and pull those breaking the law, super efficient based on my experience they could easily do 15/hour!

By your own admission most of these motorists would not be guilty of the reg 110 offence under the current law?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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cp8759
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 12:30
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I said at the time that the only possible outcome was a change to the legislation, I'm surprised it took them this long to be honest.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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jdh
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 12:47
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They could have just charged him with a more appropriate offence and not used the mobile phone law for something that was always going to be a grey area within it.
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mike5100
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 17:17
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 12:52) *
The government plans to close a legal loophole that has allowed drivers who use mobile phones to film or take photographs to escape prosecution.

It is illegal for drivers to call or text on hand-held phones but some have dodged punishment for taking photos.

In July, a man overturned a conviction for filming a crash, saying he was not using his phone "to communicate".

The government aims to revise the laws to also include browsing the internet and searching playlists while driving.

It says the current legislation has fallen behind advances in smartphone technology.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50250730

Do we think the emboldened bit would apply only if the driver was holding the device in his hand? ie browsing a playlist while the phone was in a cradle would be allowed?
Mike
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666
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 17:33
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QUOTE (mike5100 @ Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 17:17) *
QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 12:52) *
The government plans to close a legal loophole that has allowed drivers who use mobile phones to film or take photographs to escape prosecution.

It is illegal for drivers to call or text on hand-held phones but some have dodged punishment for taking photos.

In July, a man overturned a conviction for filming a crash, saying he was not using his phone "to communicate".

The government aims to revise the laws to also include browsing the internet and searching playlists while driving.

It says the current legislation has fallen behind advances in smartphone technology.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50250730

Do we think the emboldened bit would apply only if the driver was holding the device in his hand? ie browsing a playlist while the phone was in a cradle would be allowed?
Mike

It doesn't matter much what we think! But FWIW all the emphasis is on hand-held.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 17:40
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So something that is not within the ambit of a criminal law is a “loophole” now?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 17:49
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 11:52) *
The government plans to close a legal loophole

except of course that nothing we’ve suggests that is actually true......

A report by a multi party committee isn’t ‘the government’, and the government saying they will look at it isn’t the same as planning to change the law. Other than that I’m sure the story is accurate.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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DancingDad
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 18:51
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And according to the BBC news at the moment, even touching the phone will see a fine and 6 points.
That's all the Uber drivers with phone in a holder who punch in new coordinates while in a traffic queue (even if it is travelling at 30mph) bu55ered
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cp8759
post Sat, 2 Nov 2019 - 01:20
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QUOTE (mike5100 @ Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 17:17) *
Do we think the emboldened bit would apply only if the driver was holding the device in his hand? ie browsing a playlist while the phone was in a cradle would be allowed?

There's already a regulation that covers that, I'm not going to try and quote it exactly at this time but basically there cannot be any screen visible to the driver with the exception of one displaying information about the vehicle or the navigation thereof, so satnav or gps speedo is fine, facebook or twitter is not.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 2 Nov 2019 - 16:27
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 2 Nov 2019 - 01:20) *
QUOTE (mike5100 @ Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 17:17) *
Do we think the emboldened bit would apply only if the driver was holding the device in his hand? ie browsing a playlist while the phone was in a cradle would be allowed?

There's already a regulation that covers that, I'm not going to try and quote it exactly at this time but basically there cannot be any screen visible to the driver with the exception of one displaying information about the vehicle or the navigation thereof, so satnav or gps speedo is fine, facebook or twitter is not.

Yup. C&U REgs 101.
But many vehicles break that anyway and it is getting worse as more connectivity to phones creeps in.

My car has the Nissan Connect system.
Displays Radio Stations and what is playing, Call lists, Contacts all lifted from my phone, details of music I may be streaming from my phone.
None of that relates to vehicle or journey.
Other systems display SMS messages.
Some can mirror the phone so whatever apps are on your phone can be displayed.
What allows that ?
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cp8759
post Sat, 2 Nov 2019 - 17:02
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 2 Nov 2019 - 16:27) *
What allows that ?

The fact that PC Plod has never actually read reg 101 and his sarge hasn't told him anything about it.

It's a bit like section 12 of the Licensing Act 1872, PC Plod only uses it once in a blue moon when someone is being an a-hole, the fact that the law technically criminalises fairly common and socially accepted behaviour without causing any widespread problems meas that the DfT has never bothered to update it. After all, on a strict interpretation any car radio with a digital screen is also unlawful.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Ocelot
post Sun, 3 Nov 2019 - 14:56
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 17:49) *
QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 11:52) *
The government plans to close a legal loophole

except of course that nothing we’ve suggests that is actually true......

A report by a multi party committee isn’t ‘the government’, and the government saying they will look at it isn’t the same as planning to change the law. Other than that I’m sure the story is accurate.


You know how journalists are when they get motoring stories, full of references to 'loopholes', 'the Government' and 'fines'.
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speedfighter23
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 11:49
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The mobile law is getting more and more unpractical as cars get more and more technologically advanced, (Apple Car, etc.).

I think they need to be careful, as you can say wait a minute I touched my phone, whats the difference of that and changing the heating setting on my car when driving or touching the car GPS?

It's easy to nick a driver if he is holding his phone in his hands, but almost impossible to enforce if he is touching the phone that is locked somewhere on a hold as its the same thing as touching the phone is the same as touching the heating settings in reality.

I am seeing less people with the phone on their ear as almost all new cars have bluetooth, but yes texting is the main culprit to getting caught, for the record I always keep my phone in a locked position when driving and never hold it, you can see all the notifications on it anyway so if its important you can just find somewhere to stop.

The best they can do is charge you with driving without due care and attention if you are touching your screen too much and not paying attention!

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 11:52
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cp8759
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 19:25
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QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 11:49) *
The best they can do is charge you with driving without due care and attention if you are touching your screen too much and not paying attention!

But there is too much more scope for people to take this to court and argue the toss over it.

It's a bit like speeding, you could say we shouldn't have numerical speed limits and the police should just prosecute people who drive "too fast for the conditions", but that leaves so much scope for argument that in practice it would be unenforceable except in extreme cases (like morons who do 90 in a 30).

This is exactly the reason why most traffic offences are framed to be rather black and white.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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