[NIP Wizard] Vague Locus? |
[NIP Wizard] Vague Locus? |
Wed, 14 May 2008 - 13:34
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 2 May 2008 Member No.: 19,253 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - April 2008 Date of the NIP: - 2 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 4 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A5103 PRINCESS PARKWAY/PRINCESS ROAD,, MANCHESTER Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I think I passed the van leaving Manchester at the end of a 40 zone, entering a 50 zone - the NIP states I was doing 51. However, the NIP simply states the location as A5103 PRINCESS PARKWAY/PRINCESS ROAD,, MANCHESTER; and as anyone that knows that road, it runs from the A57 Mancunian Way in the centre of Manchester, down onto the M56 about 8 or so miles south. Along difference stretches of the road, the limit gradually increases from 30 to 40 to 50 before becoming the M56. Could the NIP be invalid as it isn't clear as to where the van was (even if I do remember possibly passing one)? NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:34:51 +0100 This post has been edited by PaulSpink: Wed, 14 May 2008 - 13:44 |
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 13:34
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 14:04
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
If that description is indeed 8 miles, then vaguie locus, so you need to reply to the NIP naming yourself within the 28 days.
Simon -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 14:44
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 18 Apr 2008 Member No.: 18,910 |
how accurate does the NIP location have to be ?
can they not provided a more detailed location latter or does if have to be accurate on the NIP ? do you have to go to court to fight it on the gounds of the location ? |
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 14:48
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,506 Joined: 9 Jan 2008 From: manchester Member No.: 16,521 |
its certainly confusing
pricess road is about 7 miles long, then it changes to princess parkway for about the last mile though both with the same road no so either they have tried to change 2 roads into one or they mean on the border between the two there are any number of land marks along this road they could have used either way its inprecise once the offence is 14 days old write and ask for a more exact locus and see what they reply would also be intresting to get the road traffic order of the council and see where the limits actualy come into force. the signs are some times way out -------------------- jobo
anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year, |
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 15:08
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
how accurate does the NIP location have to be ? Depends on the situation, the ruling in Young V Day made it clear there is no set accuracy, that between say 2jcts on an mway 3 miles apart may be OK, while 'Oxford street, London' would not, as there are landmarks available to create a better locus can they not provided a more detailed location latter or does if have to be accurate on the NIP ? No, the NIP, to be valid, has to specify the location do you have to go to court to fight it on the gounds of the location ? Possibly, depends if the scammers realise there mistake or not If this relates to a case of your own, please stick to Q's in your own thread! Simon -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 16:11
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 2 May 2008 Member No.: 19,253 |
its certainly confusing pricess road is about 7 miles long, then it changes to princess parkway for about the last mile though both with the same road no so either they have tried to change 2 roads into one or they mean on the border between the two there are any number of land marks along this road they could have used either way its inprecise once the offence is 14 days old write and ask for a more exact locus and see what they reply would also be intresting to get the road traffic order of the council and see where the limits actualy come into force. the signs are some times way out As suggested, I will reply asking for a more exact location. Is there any terminology I should / or shouldn't use when drafting my response? Also, what could the likely responses be; a -the location is correct and accept the fine, b - they give a more accurate location? If b what should my next step be? Many thanks. |
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 16:15
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,748 Joined: 4 Apr 2007 Member No.: 11,456 |
Princess Parkway is only 1.5 to 1.8km max long the parkway runs from just after Northbank walk to where it turns into the M56 382683,391251 to 382277,389573 so I do not think a Vague Locus will work. Pete D
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 16:18
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,506 Joined: 9 Jan 2008 From: manchester Member No.: 16,521 |
pete d
The nip says princess rd / parkway The whole lot is 8 miles if it had said just parkway i think he would have been in trouble but as it is he has a fair chance -------------------- jobo
anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year, |
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 16:45
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,748 Joined: 4 Apr 2007 Member No.: 11,456 |
Jobo. No it says "PRINCESS PARKWAY/PRINCESS ROAD" PRINCESS PARKWAY is a the late section of PRINCESS ROAD that turns into the M56, Princess Parkway is quite specific. Pete D
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 16:57
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,506 Joined: 9 Jan 2008 From: manchester Member No.: 16,521 |
i know i drove down it yester day , princess parkway is not part of princess road
its seperate place which changes road signs so either they are trying to sugest the location of the speeding is on the border between the 2, in which case it should have said the border between the 2 adjacent to the big church or its ( they ) dont know the differaence. Locals call the whole thing ( all 8 miles of it ) the parkway just iding two roads isnt an exact location when it could have been anywhere on either isnt good enough i live here and im confused as to what they meean -------------------- jobo
anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year, |
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Wed, 14 May 2008 - 19:15
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,748 Joined: 4 Apr 2007 Member No.: 11,456 |
According to Streetmap.co.uk it is an extension to Princess Road and is clearly detailed there. Local knowledge is all very well but history and memory is not detailed on the map. Pete D
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Thu, 15 May 2008 - 11:40
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 8 Apr 2008 Member No.: 18,643 |
Off topic:
I lived in South Manchester from 1998-2002 and there was a scamera on Princess Parkway hidden just a few metres behind a massive sign for one of the junctions. There was no way of spotting it before you were on top of it. It wouldn't happen to be this scamera, would it? |
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Thu, 15 May 2008 - 12:23
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,506 Joined: 9 Jan 2008 From: manchester Member No.: 16,521 |
Hi pete d
Not sure what we are debating here Pricess road, stops, so does the postal adress and the road (extention in your words) is called Princess park way it a different road name and a diferent postal address Its like the A1 stops and becomes the A1m and then changes back again you are either on the A1 or the A1m so you are either on princess rd or princess parkway by putting both on the NIP there is a danger that I would be confused as to what poin t on an 8 mile strech of tarmac id been pinged All so if you read the case law Local knowledge should be taken into account as to lickly confusion -------------------- jobo
anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year, |
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Thu, 15 May 2008 - 13:26
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,748 Joined: 4 Apr 2007 Member No.: 11,456 |
It is the same road A5103 different name for that section where he was detected. http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=38...4&ay=393984
Pete D |
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Thu, 15 May 2008 - 15:29
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,506 Joined: 9 Jan 2008 From: manchester Member No.: 16,521 |
I know i said that in my first post so
its either one road a5103 in which case its 8 miles long and a vague locas or its two postal adresses Princess road or princess park way in which case combined they are 8 miles long and its vague locas -------------------- jobo
anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year, |
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Thu, 15 May 2008 - 15:57
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,748 Joined: 4 Apr 2007 Member No.: 11,456 |
I would deem the location of the van to be as it is written A5103 PRINCESS PARKWAY/PRINCESS ROAD,, MANCHESTER i.e. on the A5103 at Princess Parkway part of Princess Road in Manchester. If the van was in the area of Princess Parkway then it is not a Vague Locus. The OP will have to check either from the photo's or form the scamera office, if they came back and stated it was Princess Road then that may be a different matter. Pete D
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Fri, 16 May 2008 - 07:04
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Not knowing the area but A5103 PRINCESS PARKWAY/PRINCESS ROAD but sounds like one OR the other to me.....surely one stretch of road can only have one OFFICIAL name...even if its known by others locally...
Simon -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 16 May 2008 - 08:54
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 12 May 2008 Member No.: 19,466 |
Depends on the situation, the ruling in Young V Day made it clear there is no set accuracy, that between say 2jcts on an mway 3 miles apart may be OK, while 'Oxford street, London' would not, as there are landmarks available to create a better locus This case keeps getting refered to here. Is the actual case report available anywhere on the web? |
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Fri, 16 May 2008 - 09:05
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#19
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Member Group: Administrators Posts: 9,760 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wiltshire, UK Member No.: 4 |
Depends on the situation, the ruling in Young V Day made it clear there is no set accuracy, that between say 2jcts on an mway 3 miles apart may be OK, while 'Oxford street, London' would not, as there are landmarks available to create a better locus This case keeps getting refered to here. Is the actual case report available anywhere on the web? This link link will take you to a summary of the case. -------------------- Regards, Mika
Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Fri, 16 May 2008 - 10:21
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,748 Joined: 4 Apr 2007 Member No.: 11,456 |
Nothing Vague here then. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
like all the other maps I've checked inclding http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|rykn...2.2626:17|a5103| Unless the OP was not caught on the Parkway. Pete D This post has been edited by Pete D: Fri, 16 May 2008 - 10:32 |
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