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An app that reports bad parking - apparently
stamfordman
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 18:09
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Says it's launching EFine this month but the website is so bad that I don't think they have a hope.

http://alesaservices.com
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Redivi
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 18:25
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Am I reading this correctly that it's a glorified version of the system operated by some of the more disreputable parking companies ?

Members of the public that have downloaded the App take pictures of "offending" vehicles and send them to the council

The council issues a Notice to Owner and pays a commission when it's paid

What would the tribunals make of it ?

Far from saving cost, chaos can be created from PCN-mobbing if dozens of App users send pictures of the same car at the same time

This post has been edited by Redivi: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 18:30
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stamfordman
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 18:30
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Sorry forgot to link to item I saw about it:

https://www.petrolprices.com/news/new-app-t...ly-parked-cars/


How does it work?
The new app acts as a CCTV network through proprietary code, which is a closed source code, and patent-pending technology. These systems working together create a network of mobile CCTV devices that don’t need the video to be saved on the device, instead, it is processed and stored securely, and then sent straight to the relevant council.
When you spot a parking infringement, you simply open the app, video for evidence and then eFine takes care of the rest.
“The app lets a user know if they are in a partner council area before they record the infringement,” says Alex Mühlhölzl, Chief Operating Officer. “The data is not accessible by the user and is not stored on the user’s phone, it is sent to us and stored on an Azure system, meaning only the council associated with the infringement notice can see the video and decide if a fine should be issued. We don’t even see it.”
With this, you will also get a 25% share of the infringement notice when paid as an incentive and thank you for doing a parking officers job. eFine themselves also keep a 25% share to cover costs.
Who’s going to use it?
While the app is aimed at everyone, they particularly hope the elderly, disabled people and new parents will be able to get the most benefit out of it, as they can report incidents where they were not able to navigate the pavement or park in the correct bay.
“Those that have a disability and get impacted by people parking on the footpath, those pushing buggies or elderly on scooters who have to go into traffic to get around the illegally parked vehicle,” says Alex.
“There is also the issue that some electric vehicles cannot charge because a combustion vehicle has parked in the charge point parking space. With councils investing millions in electric vehicle infrastructure, these charge points generate revenue that offsets this capital cost so every vehicle using it to charge matters.”
How can our councils benefit from it?
We’ve reported many times before on council parking charges, from record profit numbers to increasing parking charges but this is a new angle altogether.
Other benefits include better traffic management and identifying risky spots sooner. Councils will also be able to ensure that parking wardens are implementing and inspecting reports from the general public as well as optimising the use of technology, something which some councils lack.
“It addresses the need for better management of traffic flow, vehicle and pedestrian, without the huge costs that are incurred by councils having to hire enforcement staff or outsource the service,” says Alex.
“We have a focus on traffic flow management, cars and pedestrians, and also pedestrian safety, and as such we are looking to prepare a template for councils that are looking to introduce pedestrian zones around schools without the financial burden of installing CCTV networks.” says Alex. “We are also looking to support councils who are looking at the initiative of fining households for leaving rubbish or bins out for days or weeks. This rubbish is often scavenged by animals and creates an environmental problem and bins on the footpaths create pedestrian traffic issues for the disabled and those pushing buggies or trolleys and those on scooters.”
Asking other pedestrians to report and send in images is something that has been trialled before with dashcam footage to some success but creating a CCTV network on mobile phones is a new suggestion and one that poses some questions.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 18:30
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Redivi
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 18:56
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The comments section reads like the Daily Mail

Everyone discussing the evils of pavement parking
Nobody questioning the Big Brother and legal implications of enforcing anonymous reports
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DancingDad
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 20:01
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I assume that the creators are aware of the limitations on what CCTV can enforce against???
This is going to run head on against the General Regulations Amendment 2015. (No2)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/10...gulation/2/made

Not to mention that the General Regs 2007 only allow service by post against CCTV from "an Approved Device"
Which is not Joe Public's mobile phone.
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stamfordman
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 20:59
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 21:01) *
I assume that the creators are aware of the limitations on what CCTV can enforce against???



I presume the idea is that it's a sort of crowdsourced equivalent of calling out a CEO to your blocked dropped kerb. The CCTV reports but doesn't enforce until a roving CEO on a scooter or mini-car does (and in boroughs such as Islington they can be there damn fast).
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Redivi
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 01:09
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“The data is not accessible by the user and is not stored on the user’s phone, it is sent to us and stored on an Azure system, meaning only the council associated with the infringement notice can see the video and decide if a fine should be issued. We don’t even see it.”

Motorists will have to be very alert to realise from reference numbers or mention of E-Fine that the vehicle was not seen by a CEO
The only obvious clue is likely to be a better quality photograph

My suspicion is that councils will rely on few motorists not challenging the penalties
Any that are challenged and mention an approved device will be cancelled

Challenges for boarding-alighting and loading exemptions should also succeed because nobody's going to take videos that are long enough to meet the observation times and councils won't be able to present evidence to the contrary

This post has been edited by Redivi: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 11:41
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stamfordman
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 11:00
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 02:09) *
“The data is not accessible by the user and is not stored on the user’s phone, it is sent to us and stored on an Azure system, meaning only the council associated with the infringement notice can see the video and decide if a fine should be issued. We don’t even see it.”

Motorists will have to be very alert to realise from reference numbers or mention of E-Fine that the vehicle was seen by a CEO
The only obvious clue is likely to be a better quality photograph

My suspicion is that councils will rely on few motorists not challenging the penalties
Any that are challenged and mention an approved device will be cancelled

Challenges for boarding-alighting and loading exemptions should also succeed because nobody's going to take videos that are long enough to meet the observation times and councils won't be able to present evidence to the contrary



As I said, I presume the council will have to despatch a CEO to issue a PCN. As DD says, in most cases CCTV cannot be used for parking contraventions.

I can see a place for stepping up a system or reporting bad parking contraventions - after all, you can today call the council to report them anyway.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 12:10
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 12:00) *
......….As I said, I presume the council will have to despatch a CEO to issue a PCN. As DD says, in most cases CCTV cannot be used for parking contraventions.

I can see a place for stepping up a system or reporting bad parking contraventions - after all, you can today call the council to report them anyway.

I admit there is a major difference between an operator on the phone getting what may simply be a habitual moaner and something more concrete like a photo of a car half across a driveway or parked up on crossing zig zags.
But they still need to follow the law and get a CEO there.
My fear would be councils playing fast and loose, sending out NTOs instead of postal PCNs or Postals claiming that the CEO had begun to prepare.
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nigelbb
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 12:30
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Shame about the business of having to get a CEO there otherwise I could make a very nice second income from grassing up all the people who stop down the road on double yellow lines outside the Chinese takeaway.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Ocelot
post Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 12:38
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 19:56) *
The comments section reads like the Daily Mail

Everyone discussing the evils of pavement parking
Nobody questioning the Big Brother and legal implications of enforcing anonymous reports


"Inform on your family and friends...fabulous prizes to be won."
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mdann52
post Sun, 8 Sep 2019 - 21:33
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QUOTE
The new app acts as a CCTV network through proprietary code, which is a closed source code, and patent-pending technology


Good to see all the correct buzzwords are in there to presumably get shed loads of funding for not a lot of work....

QUOTE
“The data is not accessible by the user and is not stored on the user’s phone, it is sent to us and stored on an Azure system, meaning only the council associated with the infringement notice can see the video and decide if a fine should be issued. We don’t even see it.”


Doubt this bit somehow as well... could be a fun GDPR claim at some point....
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Fredd
post Sun, 8 Sep 2019 - 22:08
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QUOTE (mdann52 @ Sun, 8 Sep 2019 - 22:33) *
QUOTE
“The data is not accessible by the user and is not stored on the user’s phone, it is sent to us and stored on an Azure system, meaning only the council associated with the infringement notice can see the video and decide if a fine should be issued. We don’t even see it.”


Doubt this bit somehow as well... could be a fun GDPR claim at some point....

Just because they don't "see" it (by which I assume they mean deliberately view it), doesn't mean they don't control it - which clearly they do.


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Umkomaas
post Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 08:45
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Has whiffs of Trev $hitehouse's 'ANPR in a Box' that he had developed in his garden shed, full of them tricky algyriddims and capable of detecting speeders, forecourt petrol thieves, shoplifters, vagrants and illegal immigrants.

Could have made him a fortune. laugh.gif
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ManxRed
post Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 08:47
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Given the level of ignorance within the comments as to current parking legislation, this won't end well.


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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TheDisapprovingB...
post Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 10:11
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QUOTE (mdann52 @ Sun, 8 Sep 2019 - 22:33) *
Doubt this bit somehow as well... could be a fun GDPR claim at some point....


That was my first thought. From the screenshots, it looks like the app discloses the current status of each fine submitted (Fine issued, fine appealed, fine paid), each linked to the specific incident reported. That's a lot of personal data to be disclosing to random members of the public just because they installed an app.
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thevaliant
post Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 12:14
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 13:38) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 19:56) *
The comments section reads like the Daily Mail

Everyone discussing the evils of pavement parking
Nobody questioning the Big Brother and legal implications of enforcing anonymous reports


"Inform on your family and friends...fabulous prizes to be won."


You win the internet for the week for getting a great quote, from the best Red Dwarf episode ever, to be relevant to the thread.
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mdann52
post Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 17:33
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 8 Sep 2019 - 23:08) *
QUOTE (mdann52 @ Sun, 8 Sep 2019 - 22:33) *
QUOTE
“The data is not accessible by the user and is not stored on the user’s phone, it is sent to us and stored on an Azure system, meaning only the council associated with the infringement notice can see the video and decide if a fine should be issued. We don’t even see it.”


Doubt this bit somehow as well... could be a fun GDPR claim at some point....

Just because they don't "see" it (by which I assume they mean deliberately view it), doesn't mean they don't control it - which clearly they do.


I agree completely. Given a lot of, dare I say, far more mature and well-known companies get cloud and security wrong (unsecured Amazon S3 buckets anyone?), I'm not confident when people start trumping they can't see their own data. (Oh, and Microsoft can see it anyway as it's on their system!)

Additionally, it must be stored on their phone when taken in the cache, and usually apps don't have deep enough access to clear that!
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Neil B
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 22:49
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Let me guess --- there's a fee to sign up to this?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 20:21
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 7 Sep 2019 - 12:00) *
As I said, I presume the council will have to despatch a CEO to issue a PCN. As DD says, in most cases CCTV cannot be used for parking contraventions.

Even in the limited circumstances where CCTV enforcement is allowed, and unlike criminal proceedings, councils PCNs can only be issued on the basis of an approved device. And if all the app does is inform the council so they can send a CEO, what's the point? Most council parking departments will dispatch a CEO if they have one available and you simply call up and report an illegally parked vehicle.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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