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Filmed using mobile phone by neighbour
Flower123
post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 18:37
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Hey everyone this is my first post.
I was parked outside my home with the engine running whilst I was sorting out the google maps on my phone to go somewhere. Once I put the phone its cradle I looked up and noticed a neighbour filming me whilst shaking his head. The footage would clearly show me and my number plate if sent to the police. The footage was taken from inside my neighbours home. Im a new driver so is there anyway I would get 6 points for this? Pls help
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post Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 18:37
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southpaw82
post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:00
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:51) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:36) *
If you do contact the police, leave it at least 2 weeks, no point rushing in and then the incident being logged later.


Why wait two weeks?

Arbitrary amount of time for the neighbour to report it and the police to log it such that if they are going to log it it’s likely to be on the system by then, otherwise an enquiry before it’s logged risks getting a false negative. (No nothing to do with NIPs or 14 days).

How serendipitous.

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

I’m not going to list every possible offence that could possibly apply. Just wait and see if the police bother to do anything - you’ve currently no idea what, if anything, your neighbour has done.


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Flower123
post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:53
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Serendipitous Confectionary
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666
post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 18:23
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QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 18:50
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QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Yep.


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DancingDad
post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 20:40
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Flowers, you are panicking about nothing here.
From your description (assuming it is accurate) the worst any video would show is you sitting in a stationary, parked car setting your mobile before cradling it and then driving off.
Even if the neighbour sends the video to the police, doubt anything would come of it, possibly a warning letter but doubt even that, Old Bill have better things to do then chase down "offences" when the supporting evidence doesn't show an offence.

Your best way to calm your nerves as a new driver, is to put this behind, deal with it if anything comes but forget it till it does (it wont).
Then refresh your memory on the highway code, abide by it and have nothing to worry on.
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TryOut
post Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 08:58
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QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 16:49) *
Ok I would think the police would have to pursue this as it has been sent in by a member of public? If the police do prosecute what are the chances of me being given the 6 point penalty and having my license revoked?

No. The police don’t have to prosecute. As has been said more than once, your description will cause a police viewer to shrug his shoulders and type NFA. No Further Action.

Maybe you should stop worrying and post up anything you do receive, but that eventuality is unlikely.
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Flower123
post Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 09:02
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Ok well hopefully i won't hear anything back. Thanks for the advice
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nigelbb
post Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 09:40
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QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Isn't the offence of running the engine while stationary actually refusing to switch off the engine when instructed by a person in authority? That wouldn't apply in the OP's case.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 09:40


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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DancingDad
post Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 10:21
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 10:40) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Isn't the offence of running the engine while stationary actually refusing to switch off the engine when instructed by a person in authority? That wouldn't apply in the OP's case.

I'm not 100% how many but some councils have clean air legislation in place that allows them to serve an FPN/PCN on people sitting with engines ticking over.
Aimed more at things like Taxis waiting in ranks, school runs where mums (or dads) sit with engine ticking over while waiting for their dearly beloved etc.
In this case I cannot see it applying unless deemed too long.
IE, Switched on, set phone, cradled, drove away is all in the act of preparing to drive.
Some you see, get in car, start it, make a phone call, check texts, check twitface etc.... can be a long time before they actually drive off.
Cannot see police being interested and I think council have to have an occifer there to serve whatever.
Could be wrong.
If anything comes from it, got to judge against OP's personal knowledge whether to fight or not, worst case a fine/penalty, no points
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southpaw82
post Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 11:41
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 10:40) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Isn't the offence of running the engine while stationary actually refusing to switch off the engine when instructed by a person in authority? That wouldn't apply in the OP's case.

No. Reg 98 of the C&U Regs

QUOTE
Save as provided in paragraph (2), the driver of a vehicle shall, when the vehicle is stationary, stop the action of any machinery attached to or forming part of the vehicle so far as may be necessary for the prevention of noise.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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nigelbb
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 05:07
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 11:21) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 10:40) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Isn't the offence of running the engine while stationary actually refusing to switch off the engine when instructed by a person in authority? That wouldn't apply in the OP's case.

I'm not 100% how many but some councils have clean air legislation in place that allows them to serve an FPN/PCN on people sitting with engines ticking over.
Aimed more at things like Taxis waiting in ranks, school runs where mums (or dads) sit with engine ticking over while waiting for their dearly beloved etc.
In this case I cannot see it applying unless deemed too long.
IE, Switched on, set phone, cradled, drove away is all in the act of preparing to drive.
Some you see, get in car, start it, make a phone call, check texts, check twitface etc.... can be a long time before they actually drive off.
Cannot see police being interested and I think council have to have an occifer there to serve whatever.
Could be wrong.
If anything comes from it, got to judge against OP's personal knowledge whether to fight or not, worst case a fine/penalty, no points

Some councils have £20 FPNs & they can only be issued after the driver has been requested to switch off the engine. The offence is not actually having the engine running but not complying with the request to switch it off.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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DancingDad
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 07:28
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 06:07) *
...........Some councils have £20 FPNs & they can only be issued after the driver has been requested to switch off the engine. The offence is not actually having the engine running but not complying with the request to switch it off.


AFAIK, the offence is unnecessary idling and it doesn't need a request.
But would need to dig out the council TROs that enable to check exact.
According to this, around 30 councils at the time of writing though it doesn't seem many enforced.
Penalties between £20 to £80 touted
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/ar...nes-idling.html
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nigelbb
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 09:04
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 08:28) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 06:07) *
...........Some councils have £20 FPNs & they can only be issued after the driver has been requested to switch off the engine. The offence is not actually having the engine running but not complying with the request to switch it off.


AFAIK, the offence is unnecessary idling and it doesn't need a request.
But would need to dig out the council TROs that enable to check exact.
According to this, around 30 councils at the time of writing though it doesn't seem many enforced.
Penalties between £20 to £80 touted
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/ar...nes-idling.html

In Scotland at least it seems that you have to be warned to switch off before the offence is committed.

"The Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (Scotland) Regulations 2003 enable local authority Authorised Persons to request vehicle users to switch off engines when parked and to issue Fixed Penalty Notices to those who refuse to co-operate."

https://www.gov.scot/publications/local-aut...issued/pages/4/

BTW IAfter Southpaw's reference to Section 98 of the Construction and Use Regulations I took a look & it is all to do with noise not pollution & could be a difficult offence to prove. It's also a defence if you are stopped in traffic or if you have the engine running while you peer under the bonnet & scratch your head.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/10...ulation/98/made


"Save as provided in paragraph (2), the driver of a vehicle shall, when the vehicle is stationary, stop the action of any machinery attached to or forming part of the vehicle so far as may be necessary for the prevention of noise."

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 09:11


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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DancingDad
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 09:27
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Equivalent act in England
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/1808/contents/made

S12 states similar to Scotland
"Stopping of engine when vehicle stationary
12.—(1) An authorised person who has reasonable cause to believe that the driver of a vehicle that is stationary on a road is committing a stationary idling offence may, upon production of evidence of his authorisation, require him to stop the running of the engine of that vehicle.
(2) A person who fails to comply with a requirement under paragraph (1) shall be guilty of an offence and be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. "

13 doesn't require that the driver be asked to switch off.....
"Issue of fixed penalty notice: stationary idling offence
13. An authorised person who considers that a stationary idling offence has been committed may, in accordance with Part 7, issue a fixed penalty notice to the driver of the vehicle. "
It does seem to be £20 FPN for idling offences.
£60 if the vehicle fails an emissions test.
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nigelbb
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 09:42
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 10:27) *
Equivalent act in England
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/1808/contents/made

S12 states similar to Scotland
"Stopping of engine when vehicle stationary
12.—(1) An authorised person who has reasonable cause to believe that the driver of a vehicle that is stationary on a road is committing a stationary idling offence may, upon production of evidence of his authorisation, require him to stop the running of the engine of that vehicle.
(2) A person who fails to comply with a requirement under paragraph (1) shall be guilty of an offence and be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. "

13 doesn't require that the driver be asked to switch off.....
"Issue of fixed penalty notice: stationary idling offence
13. An authorised person who considers that a stationary idling offence has been committed may, in accordance with Part 7, issue a fixed penalty notice to the driver of the vehicle. "
It does seem to be £20 FPN for idling offences.
£60 if the vehicle fails an emissions test.

It looks like you could have a double whammy. Issued with a FPN for a stationary idling offence then another FPN when they don't comply if required to stop the running of the engine.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 09:43


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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stamfordman
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 10:20
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This is almost certainly just a neighbour playing games. I mentioned the engine idling because it is an issue - quite often I have told off drivers leaving engines on outside our house as the fumes can drift in under the front door and through open windows, especially diesel fumes.

Two years ago there was a bloke with his engine on who was unresponsive when I knocked on his window and he seemed unconscious - had to call police.
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DancingDad
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 10:29
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 11:20) *
......….Two years ago there was a bloke with his engine on who was unresponsive when I knocked on his window and he seemed unconscious - had to call police.


Did they issue an FPN ? rolleyes.gif
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Starworshipper12
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 17:51
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A couple of weeks back a car was parked outside my house with the engine running. I could hear it and after 5 minutes went outside only to find there was no-one in it. Fairly new Mercedes A class, and of course diesel...

I left to run errands, and after nearly an hour returned to find the car still parked and running. Didn’t really know what to do except leave a blunt note on the windscreen.
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mickR
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 19:39
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QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 18:53) *
Serendipitous Confectionary


That would be going round the neighbours and shoving his camera up his supercaifragalisticxpalidosious
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Flower123
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 19:51
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😂😂 if only
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