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HGV third lane use, what about dual carriageways?
oldstoat
post Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 18:47
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HGV, can use all lanes on a multi lane single carriage way.

HGV can use both lanes on a dual carriage way.

HGV are unable to use third lane on a motorway.

What about a three lane dual carriageway?

Just south of Newcastle there is a three lane section of the A1 which has not been upgraded or designated as motorway.

Can an HGV therefore use that third lane?


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post Thu, 16 Jan 2020 - 18:47
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Spandex
post Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 20:44
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QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 20:20) *
QUOTE (Spandex @ Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 19:23) *
and increased speed doesn’t equal increased flow.... .......

and faster moving traffic obviously means less vehicles in any given length of road


Meaning better flow

Nope. The opposite. As explained above.
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mickR
post Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 21:54
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Nope. Flow is the number of vehicle passing a given point in a set time ie per hour. If traffic speed is greater more vhicles will pass that point in that hour. If traffic is travelling at 10mph fewer vehicles can pass that point than if was travelling at 70mph
Are you.mistaking flow for volume?

This post has been edited by mickR: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 21:55
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nigelbb
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 06:50
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QUOTE (Earl Purple @ Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 13:33) *
The problem with HGVs occupying all the lanes is not just their speed but their width, and leaving room for motorcycles to filter between lanes 2 and 3, or even lane 1 and 2 if they are both occupied by wide vehicles.

I don't think that leaving room for queue jumping motorcycles will ever be a consideration in highway design or management.


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Spandex
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 08:35
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QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 21:54) *
Nope. Flow is the number of vehicle passing a given point in a set time ie per hour. If traffic speed is greater more vhicles will pass that point in that hour. If traffic is travelling at 10mph fewer vehicles can pass that point than if was travelling at 70mph
Are you.mistaking flow for volume?

Ok, if vehicles are travelling faster, they have to leave greater distances between them, meaning that there are actually less vehicles passing a given point per hour, despite those individual vehicles moving at a higher speed.

If one car passes that given point during the hour, but does so at 300mph, is that high traffic flow? No.

Here is a typical graph showing speed vs flow, and how flow does not simply increase with speed:

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mickR
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 10:40
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So you are now introducing the third variable of density. You cannot asses flow without density. Your analogy of one car at 300mph is im affraid nonsense. Your link to hamilton one of many studies, others will not agree.
Anyway we should agree to differ our opinions i think.
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Spandex
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 13:43
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QUOTE (mickR @ Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 10:40) *
So you are now introducing the third variable of density. You cannot asses flow without density. Your analogy of one car at 300mph is im affraid nonsense. Your link to hamilton one of many studies, others will not agree.
Anyway we should agree to differ our opinions i think.

If you can't assess flow without density, and we've been talking about flow all this time, I'm not sure how you can consider density as a new variable... That's like discussing velocity for a few posts, then getting the hump because someone has started bringing 'distance' into the conversation... wink.gif

Find me a study that doesn't agree there is an optimum speed for maximum traffic flow (i.e. a speed beyond which the number of vehicles per hour begins to decrease). There will, I'm sure, be lots of discussion about what that speed is, but they will all agree the optimum speed exists. And I'm also sure it will be below the speed limit for HGVs.
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mickR
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 16:46
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Your analogy, one car, 300mph. Not mine.
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Spandex
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 17:20
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QUOTE (mickR @ Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 16:46) *
Your analogy, one car, 300mph. Not mine.

No idea what bit you’re responding to there...
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mickR
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 21:56
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read your own post
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southpaw82
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 22:38
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Zzzzzzzzzz.


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Spandex
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 23:12
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QUOTE (mickR @ Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 21:56) *
read your own post

Or you could, you know, just tell me... which part of my post were you responding to? It’s not a secret, is it?
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mickR
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 23:29
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Did you see the moderators post above, it wasca hint incase you didnt notice.
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Spandex
post Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 08:20
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QUOTE (mickR @ Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 23:29) *
Did you see the moderators post above, it wasca hint incase you didnt notice.

Sigh...
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mickR
post Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 12:49
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I rest my case SP.
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Fredd
post Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 13:16
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My take on SP's comment was that it was less of a hint than expressing the view (which I imagine most people reading this would share) that this "yes it is... no it isn't..." exchange is boring as hell.


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southpaw82
post Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 13:25
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 13:16) *
My take on SP's comment was that it was less of a hint than expressing the view (which I imagine most people reading this would share) that this "yes it is... no it isn't..." exchange is boring as hell.

‘Zactly.


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mickR
post Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 16:28
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QUOTE (mickR @ Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 10:40) *
Anyway we should agree to differ our opinions i think.


Tried to bring it to an end in post #25 !

I took SP post to suggest that posts might start to dissapear !
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