UKPC Parking Charge - Uber driver, No commercial vehicle permitted on site |
UKPC Parking Charge - Uber driver, No commercial vehicle permitted on site |
Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 03:46
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,466 |
Hi all,
I got UKPC parking charge in a free car park where I used to park for many times without a problem stating “no commercial vehicles allowed on site.” See attached. I’m licensed by TFL as a private hire (minicab uber) my car is family sedan with TfL private hire sign on windshield. I appealed but not sure if I can win this. Any suggestion? I’ll check for the sign later on as I wasn’t aware of this being stated on the sign but probably it’s somewhere there with tiny letters written to increase a potential of catching anyone. Many thanks to anyone for advice This post has been edited by Ian84: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 11:18 |
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 03:46
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 05:19
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
You've left the PCN reference on the Notice and payment slip
Parking companies follow this Forum and will use any information they find Have you told UKPC who was driving ? |
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 09:31
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Can you get pictures of the signs please. If you give us the location we can perhaps look ourselves.
I'm sure that their definition of "commercial" is a bit flakey. |
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 10:58
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
And of course, if the thread title is to be taken at face value, the PPC extended no offer of parking to the OP, so the driver was trespassing on the land. Most PPCs' operating agreements generally do not convey to them an interest in the land, which means that they lack standing to bring suit in tort for trespass to land. However, we will need to see the signage and the NtK to be sure.
--Churchmouse |
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 11:06
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,466 |
Thank you, I have now erased details from PCN so it can’t be seen anymore.
I appealed through UKPC website online form where a tick box question was if I’m the driver I remember ticking yes and providing my address :-/ The sign doesn’t make this clear, first sign upon arrival doesn’t mention this at all only that max period is two hours. Further signs within the car park do not state “no commercial vehicle allowed” visibly but probably it’s there somewhere in small print on the bottom. I will get the picture of sign and upload shortly. The address is same as on the PCN it’s UKPC retail park Lewisham. Many thanks for any help it’s appreciated. |
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 12:31
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
If there is not a condition on the sign that says "no commercial" then there can be no breach and therefore no liability.
The entrance sign does not mention no commercial vehicles so once you've passed that then it is unfair to impose additional restrictions. Was this a trip with customer or private visit? Have you taken it up with the people that own the retail park? It is ridiculous that the parking company are penalising taxi drivers dropping or picking up customers. |
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 17:11
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,466 |
Hi all,
I have attached pictures from the car park - first sign at the entrance of the car park doesn’t mention anything, further sign from inside of car park does. The trip was for private purpose as I was buying something from the shop. The shops at the car park don’t want to have anything with this to do as they told me to take it up with parking company. Any thoughts on my appeal? Many thanks And the sign from inside car park that actually mentiones commercial vehicles :-/ |
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 19:04
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 22 Oct 2018 Member No.: 100,530 |
Well without a definition given of a "commercial vehicle" you could only go by the illustration and that's clearly a van on their sign. Since you weren't driving a van it can't apply to you. That's my view fwiw, see what the others advise.
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 19:06
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 10,695 Joined: 23 Apr 2004 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 1,131 |
How can they prove you were a commercial vehicle?
What is the definition of a commercial vehicle? It is certainly very woolly. I would be putting them to proof of the contravention. This post has been edited by Glacier2: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 20:46 |
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 20:18
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,466 |
Thank you Glacier2 any advise on what should I mention on my appeal. Many thanks
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 20:47
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 10,695 Joined: 23 Apr 2004 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 1,131 |
What do the UKPC online photos show?
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 20:59
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
What is the taxation class on the V5 for your vehicle?
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 21:43
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,466 |
UKPC photos show my car (family sedan), parking sign and photo of my TfL private hire license on my windshield (yellowish round sticker). My V5 taxation class states “alternative (hybrid) fuel car” “3 C” as any other regular sedan car.
I think they rely completely on TfL license as a proof of commercial vehicle which in my opinion is disputable. I’m just not sure how to word my appeal to let them off my back This post has been edited by Ian84: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 21:48 |
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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 19:23
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
In your appeal state it did not contravene any listed terms
Require them to prove it was a commercial vehicle. You require all documents thy hold that prove this Read other threads You don't "get them off your back" that easily. You make yourself too tough a target for court. |
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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 20:12
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
So your V5 shows, officially, that it is a car.
This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 20:12 |
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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 23:37
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Member No.: 102,466 |
Yes indeed
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Sat, 11 May 2019 - 17:57
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#17
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 11 May 2019 Member No.: 103,820 |
Hi Ian84!
Can you update me on the outcome of the appeal or has it been resolved, please? I have been issued a ticket at the same retail park in Lewisham, on my visit to Sports Direct, with my wife and 8 weeks old baby. I am driving a company van, but was not working on the day. As stated in my contract and insurance policy, I can use it for "Social, Domestic and Pleasure Purposes", which was the case today. I have not started the appeal, so they don't know my details yet. Will speak to my company on Monday as well, to see their take on the matter. Also as you stated, the first sign you see as you enter, does not clearly show the restrictions of use, so I was unaware of it. Anyone else's suggestions are very welcomed. Many thanks. |
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Sat, 11 May 2019 - 19:04
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,535 Joined: 16 Jan 2009 From: Up north Member No.: 25,505 |
Hi Ian84! Can you update me on the outcome of the appeal or has it been resolved, please? I have been issued a ticket at the same retail park in Lewisham, on my visit to Sports Direct, with my wife and 8 weeks old baby. I am driving a company van, but was not working on the day. As stated in my contract and insurance policy, I can use it for "Social, Domestic and Pleasure Purposes", which was the case today. I have not started the appeal, so they don't know my details yet. Will speak to my company on Monday as well, to see their take on the matter. Also as you stated, the first sign you see as you enter, does not clearly show the restrictions of use, so I was unaware of it. Anyone else's suggestions are very welcomed. Many thanks. best start your own thread -------------------- Bridges burnt, Rubicons crossed. Parthian shots delivered, but always with style
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Sat, 11 May 2019 - 19:54
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#19
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 11 May 2019 Member No.: 103,820 |
Thanks Oldstoat! Will start a new one.
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Sun, 12 May 2019 - 10:34
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
Let's not forget that the Ts&Cs extend no offer of parking to "commercial vehicles", so no offer of parking could have been accepted by the driver of a commercial vehicle, so the driver thereof could not have breached any such contract. The blanket prohibition on commercial vehicles means that the driver of such a vehicle was technically trespassing...
Trespassing is also actionable and could result in the imposition of a fine (by a court), but critically the tort of trespass to land can only be prosecuted by persons who have an "interest in the land", e.g., the landowner or a leasee thereof. PPCs usually do not have such an "interest in the land", as they merely operate a business on the land under a licence, so they cannot sue anyone in tort for trespass. The landowner could, but they usually do not, especially when that means taking their own or their tenants' customers to court! In any event, even if the driver was found liable for trespass, the damages payable would be limited to the actual damages the landowner had suffered as a result of the trespass, which (a) would have to be proven in court and (b) would be nowhere near the £100 "penalty charge" the PPC fantasises about on its signs. --Churchmouse This post has been edited by Churchmouse: Sun, 12 May 2019 - 10:37 |
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