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series of PCNs to Keeper
superwell
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:55
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Hi all,

Would be really appreciate your suggestions!

I have been given with a series of 'PCNs to keeper' for a continues days of my car being left in the same position. One of the reasons caused several PCNs sent to me was that the 'patrol officer' who was on site taking photos did not assign a 'PCN to driver'. When I received the 'PCNs to keeper', it has been roughly 10 days later. I have not yet received all of these PCNs expect the first 4 for the first 4 days. Each PCN seemed to use a different breach reason, so far.

It is possible to me to argue with the company such as the signage is not nearby, the incident position was designed like a roadside parking bay with out double-yellow-line, and the road is not a main road, my car was not blocking anything, etc. Otherwire the car would have not been parked there. Other than that, I am wondering the fairness of the company claiming a 10+ parking charges for a same thing caused the 10 days's parking, which I was not aware at all until the end.

What is the strategy to appeal these PCN's then? Should the appeal be conducted individually or together, or in group (I have not received all of them)? Is the result going to be a 'none' or 'all'? 10+ PCNs (discount-£60 or full-£100 each) add up to a lot of money!

P.S. The site belongs to the University and I actually do not know who else to contact other than the parking charge company.
P.S.S Company is 'Parking Charge Limited'.
Looking forward to your reply~

Update: Copy of NTK
1st day front.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wlqwc8x2tc124hx/day1.jpg?dl=0

back.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rlogc07zz1dbsso/back.jpg?dl=0

Nearest signage.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kh90j88a3rk7sb4/S...20only.jpg?dl=0

The second nearest signage, which is about 150 m (2+ min walking) far away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhjtg4ekx5d4bi8/S...%20max.jpg?dl=0

Site situation.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ol0vow6qr7gflp7/site.jpg?dl=0

Superwell
(but not feeling very well)

This post has been edited by superwell: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 16:05
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post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:55
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Redivi
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 15:06
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Which parking company ?
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superwell
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 15:54
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 15:06) *
Which parking company ?


Hi, Redivi,

just edited, it is Parking Charge Limited.

Thanks!
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:21
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QUOTE
What is the strategy to appeal these PCN's then?

Individually, using the MSE appeal template from the NEWBIES thread on that forum (not from an MSE article) or by using the template appeal posted on loads of threads here by ostell.

Please show both sides of one of the NTKs here (Dropbox link) and tell us what you think about whether it complies with the wording in para 9 of the POFA schedule 4?
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Redivi
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:55
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Check with the DVLA how many times Parking Charge Ltd applied for your registered keeper details

In order to recover payment from the keeper, it must make a separate application for every parking notice
Keep the information to yourself for now

As SRM advises, appeal each Parking Notice individually
For PCN #2 onwards, I would refer to PCN #1, the car not being moved and the different reasons for the notices
This will almost certainly result in 10+ rejections

Do the Notices provide the identity or a reference number of the operative that issued them ?

Parking Charge is a member of the British Parking Association
This means that, when it rejects an appeal, it must provide the access code for a second appeal top POPLA, the so-called independent organisation

Every time a code is used, it will cost the company about £30
You could make the company pay heavily for its greed
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superwell
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 17:10
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:21) *
QUOTE
What is the strategy to appeal these PCN's then?

Individually, using the MSE appeal template from the NEWBIES thread on that forum (not from an MSE article) or by using the template appeal posted on loads of threads here by ostell.

Please show both sides of one of the NTKs here (Dropbox link) and tell us what you think about whether it complies with the wording in para 9 of the POFA schedule 4?


Thank you! I am now reading those on MSE and will update the copy of NTK soon.
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superwell
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 21:29
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:55) *
Check with the DVLA how many times Parking Charge Ltd applied for your registered keeper details

Is there an online way to check this, or do I have to write to DVLA?

QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:55) *
Do the Notices provide the identity or a reference number of the operative that issued them ?

Do you mean the company's reference number? I do not know, it seems there is no such thing on the NTKs.

QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:55) *
Every time a code is used, it will cost the company about £30

That does make me feel encouraged!


QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:21) *
Please show both sides of one of the NTKs here (Dropbox link) and tell us what you think about whether it complies with the wording in para 9 of the POFA schedule 4?

BTW, is it all right to post the NTK here since not all has been received yet? Although I can not guarantee there are more.

This post has been edited by superwell: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 21:28
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Redivi
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 23:46
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Do you mean the company's reference number? I do not know, it seems there is no such thing on the NTKs.

I mean any sort of name or number that identifies the operative that made a note of the car and cleared off

It's possible that some of the tickets weren't issued by an operative at all

Parking Charge Ltd also operates self-ticketing
This is when somebody employed by the university sends the photo to PC that then issues the Parking Notice
He receives a commission if it's paid

This might explain Notices issued every day for different reasons

Can you get a photo of the nearest sign?
It will be very useful to see if PT claims the right to issue a new Notice every 24 hours

BTW, is it all right to post the NTK here since not all has been received yet?
We only need to see one to find out if PC has met the conditions to recover payments from the keeper


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cabbyman
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:09
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QUOTE (superwell @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 21:29) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:55) *
Check with the DVLA how many times Parking Charge Ltd applied for your registered keeper details

Is there an online way to check this, or do I have to write to DVLA?




Only by E mail:

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Redivi
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:16
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There would be no need if the DVLA was required to inform the registered keeper every time a private company made an enquiry
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superwell
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 16:07
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:21) *
Please show both sides of one of the NTKs here (Dropbox link) and tell us what you think about whether it complies with the wording in para 9 of the POFA schedule 4?


Hi, SchoolRunMum, I have attached the NTK. The only thing I can find is the 'time of incident' was wrongly marked with date. However, this time was clearly marked in the 'online additional evidence'. Also from the 4 th NTK, the time was included in the paper copy.

QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 23:46) *
Can you get a photo of the nearest sign?
It will be very useful to see if PT claims the right to issue a new Notice every 24 hours

Hi Redivi, I have attached the NTKs and nearest sign. The very small terms and conditions seems to announce they have the right.

QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:09) *
Only by E mail:

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk


Thanks!
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cabbyman
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 16:10
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QUOTE (superwell @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 16:07) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 23:46) *
Can you get a photo of the nearest sign?
It will be very useful to see if PT claims the right to issue a new Notice every 24 hours

Hi Redivi, I have attached the NTKs and nearest sign. The very small terms and conditions seems to announce they have the right.




That is a key term of any contract that the driver could reasonably expect to be vastly more prominent when making the decision to park.


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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superwell
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:59
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Hi, all,

As this site is quite a new area, and a very large one as well, from what I can remember, the charge notice for this area was enforced around mid-2018. Should there be a certain period that drivers should be given a warning only for the first offence? If so, where could I possibly get such written document then?

This post has been edited by superwell: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:59
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 08:48
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NO, there is no such requirement.
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 19:16
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QUOTE (superwell @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 16:07) *
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 16:21) *
Please show both sides of one of the NTKs here (Dropbox link) and tell us what you think about whether it complies with the wording in para 9 of the POFA schedule 4?


Hi, SchoolRunMum, I have attached the NTK. The only thing I can find is the 'time of incident' was wrongly marked with date. However, this time was clearly marked in the 'online additional evidence'. Also from the 4 th NTK, the time was included in the paper copy.


I think the point about the time of the incident only showing the 26.11.18 is good as a first POPLA appeal point, in those cases where this is an omission. The keeper shoudl be quoting from the POFA para 9, where it says a NTK must state the time of the incident (never mind the online additional evidence - do not mention it).

For all of them, look at the POPLA templates in post #3 of the MSE forum NEWBIES thread and use them as well. They are pre-written and deliberately long to chase away any weak PPC, who might 'no contest' it.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 19:16
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ostell
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 08:36
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Did you actually have a permit displayed? Do you have a picture of car parked and any lines?
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