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Smart Parking PCN, Any support is appreciated.
jon_tom231
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 18:22
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Driver recently attended a convention held at the Norbreck Castle Hotel.

The car park was full and had to park on the grass.

Car park had clear signs explaining the parking situation on entrance and around the car park. The car park had 15 minutes grace period. Driver qued up at the convention (15 minute que) and before purchasing tickets asked if parking was included and had to go to the reception after purchasing tickets and enter the reg number into an ipad.

Once the driver arrived at reception there was another que where they waited for 20 minutes to be told that parking was not included there had been a miscommunication and they would still have to pay if attending the event of not. They did not want to pay there rates and drove the car off site and found alternate cheaper parking.

Total time on car park according to PCN 44 minutes 30 seconds. This time was spent finding a car park and inquiring about the parking situation on a site that was very busy with crowds of people. The 15 minute "grace" period was nowhere near enough time to have done this in my opinion.

Received PCN in post from smart parking with drivers name and address. Driver is the registered keeper of vehicle. Keeper has not yet responded very new to these situations and looking for any advise on how to proceed.

Should the keeper contest this? Do they have any grounds for an appeal?

PCN pictures in links below:

https://ibb.co/zN2wzjQ
https://ibb.co/CJJfC9f

This post has been edited by jon_tom231: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 - 16:23
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post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 18:22
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Redivi
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 19:31
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Edit your post to remove any hint of who was driving

Just refer to the driver
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jon_tom231
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 19:58
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Thanks Redivi.

Point taken.
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Jlc
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:00
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The KEEPER appeals:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


First class mail with free certificate of posting from a Post office

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:01


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:03
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You must edit your post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. You could be dragging failure out of the mouth of success. Also take down the PCN and repost with identifying details removed, such as VRM and PCN number.

I would suggest:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


First class maIl with free certificate of posting from a post office

They will probably reject but you should succeed with the POPLA appeal and all the other POFA fails if they can't guess who the driver was

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:06
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Jlc
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:06
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:03) *
...failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act.

It's late too! laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:06


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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jon_tom231
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:14
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Thank you for your responses, much appreciated.

Noted about the uploads and rectified.

Does the response need to be made by post? Can the driver respond via the online challenge page mentioned in the PCN with the same effect?
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Jlc
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:17
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Are you determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?????

The driver is not appealing - the KEEPER is.

Use website (or email) as long as it doesn't force the driver to be outed.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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jon_tom231
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:24
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"The Road Traffic Act 1988 places an obligation on the registered keeper of a vehicle to provide the information of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence." Will this not result in the keeper having to give out the driver information should this go to POPLA?
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Jlc
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:25
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What's the RTA got to do with a private parking charge?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:26
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This is not RTA, it is on private land. It is not an offence, it's an invoice. POFA makes no provision for the keeper to identify the driver

Just send an appeal !!

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:28
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jon_tom231
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 20:33
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Yes, my mistake.

Thanks for the support.

Will give an update once there is one.
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Peter4321
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:17
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QUOTE (jon_tom231 @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 21:14) *
Thank you for your responses, much appreciated.

Noted about the uploads and rectified.

Does the response need to be made by post? Can the driver respond via the online challenge page mentioned in the PCN with the same effect?



OP look again at the second paragraph of the PCN!!
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