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A couple of theoretical questions re speeding for the experts!
Nojo
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:25
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Hello, I've used the forum on occasions for PCN's. Very useful indeed and the help is much appreciated.

This time I have a few questions re motoring offences and the penalties that come with them. I am based in Scotland.

1. What are the FPN (3 points + £100) limits for each speed? Or alternatively how are they calculated so I can do my own maths. I know for 70mph road it is 96mph.

2. If one goes over the FPN limit what is the usual process? Court hearing resulting in a conviction I suppose. I'm based in Scotland - is a fiscal fine a possible route instead of a conviction?

3. If the not-signed route is taken (Scotland) and things go horribly wrong (i.e. I'm the unlucky one to actually be taken to court) would I be looking at a conviction or the penalty for the original offence e.g. FPN if I was doing 82 in a 70?

That is all for now. Thanks.
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post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:25
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cp8759
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:39
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In Scotland speeding would result in a court case in the relevant Sheriff's Court. Never heard of a "fiscal fine".

If you go down the unsigned route and the procurator fiscal doesn't drop the case then you'd be looking at a conviction for an offence under section 172 RTA 1988. Whether the PF would be open to the usual plea deal that people use in England is anyone's guess but given that, compared to England, the Scottish system seems to be designed by a-holes, I really wouldn't count on it.

However as far as we're aware the unsigned route is used quite regularly by people who post on here and has never been a problem.

I don't know off the top of my head whether Police Scotland uses different thresholds to English & Welsh forces, but 82 in a 70 will be well within FPN territory, the prosecution threshold in E&W is something around 96 IIRC.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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andy_foster
post Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 19:55
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QUOTE (Nojo @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:25) *
I am based in Scotland.


The ACPO guidelines (not that ACPO exists any more, or at least under that name) do not technically apply to Scotland, but it is understood that they are broadly followed.

QUOTE
1. What are the FPN (3 points + £100) limits for each speed? <snip> I know for 70mph road it is 96mph.


I would suggest that you don't know. Google is your friend.

QUOTE
3. If the not-signed route is taken (Scotland) and things go horribly wrong (i.e. I'm the unlucky one to actually be taken to court) would I be looking at a conviction or the penalty for the original offence e.g. FPN if I was doing 82 in a 70?


From anecdotal evidence, it is not unusual to be taken to court for not signing the s. 172 response. However, we have never heard of a case where the PF did not drop it in court after the accused maintained his not guilty plea (although many have blinked first and changed their plea to guilty).

If prosecuted for failing to provide information contrary to s. 172(3) RTA 1988, and convicted of the same, what do you think you would be sentenced for?


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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TryOut
post Sun, 18 Oct 2020 - 14:16
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:55) *
QUOTE (Nojo @ Sat, 17 Oct 2020 - 20:25) *
I am based in Scotland.


The ACPO guidelines (not that ACPO exists any more, or at least under that name) do not technically apply to Scotland, but it is understood that they are broadly followed.

When ACPO existed for England and Wales, Scotland had a similar group known as ACPOS. I’m sure you can work out what the additional S stands for.

While a set of guidance is set in Scotland it isn’t the same as those that are set in England and Wales. Sometimes Google and the Internet isn’t always your friend.
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