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District Enforcement PCNtK - no photos, ticket or period given
Stupido
post Sun, 26 May 2019 - 19:58
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Hi all,

Apologies if any similar cases already to this one but I couldn’t find any. What a lot of amazing work you people do though.

Received a Parking Charge Notice to Keeper for a car I own but wasn’t driving.

It has no period the car was supposedly parked, just a time of issue and ‘No payment prior to leaving’ as the reason. No ANPR photos on the notice and no windscreen ticket given as the car was not actually parked. I understand the driver may have entered the car park for a few minutes to calm a crying baby and then left again.

I emailed their appeal address asking if they have any proof at all that the car was parked but got a generic reply referring me to the IAS.

Do they have any grounds to be asking me for payment?

https://imgur.com/a/OIIaNuZ
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post Sun, 26 May 2019 - 19:58
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ostell
post Sun, 26 May 2019 - 21:42
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Try this

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

I was not driving at the time of the alleged incident and as there is no legal requirement to name the driver I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


First class post with free certificate of posting from any post office.

They will reject but don't even think about appealing to the IAS, you will most likely lose. Just sit tight until the next lot of letters.

Check POFA for yourself, especially paragraph 9. You will find that there are many more reasons for the failure.

I note they state unequivocally that you are liable as the driver. Hello, you do not know the name of the driver.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 27 May 2019 - 08:42
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Stupido
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 07:44
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Thanks so much for the reply that’s great, though they have already rejected my appeal after I asked them for more information - does that matter?

Also curious why IAS would reject if DE are not complying with the law?

Will be a nervous wait - I suppose that’s how they get you to pay something you don’t owe.
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ostell
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 08:44
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The IAS is run by the same people who run the IPC and also, before they attempted to hide, the solicitors that will handle any resultant case. They have stated that they will reject 85% of appeals.

You didn't appeal, you were making an enquiry of them so now you send your appeal.


See if other experienced contributors agree:
Though normally an appeal to the IAS is not recommended in this case, because there are so many POFA fails I wonder if it is worth a try to see if they would accept they have no case against the keeper. Can you provide proof of some sort that you were not the driver?

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Stupido
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 09:42
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So they’re essentially policing themselves? It just gets better!

I was at work 30 miles away from the car park in question so I suppose I could get some people to verify if I had to. I’ve left it a bit too long hence my user name but will try and use your letter to both DE and the IAS if you think it’s worth it.

It must be a slightly unusual case as the letter says ‘proceeding’ instead of ‘preceding’ so seems like it was edited on the fly and not by a solicitor. Was tempted to pay to make them leave me alone but for £25 I might as well fight it and see what happens.
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ostell
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 09:55
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What £25. you shouldn't be paying for an appeal. They have offered you their "other" appeal service where you agree to comply with whatever decision is made by the IAS.

Just send the letter I suggested to DE. For the IAS, if others think it would be worthwhile, then you will list all the POFA failures together with wanting to see the contract that shows they have authority to operate and unclear signage.
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Stupido
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 11:06
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Ok got it will appeal first of all to DE and see where it gets me. Just wasn’t sure if I should contact IAS before their 21 day deadline too.

Thanks for your help - I’ll report back if I get an update.
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ostell
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 11:32
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You could point out to them that you asked for some information earlier and this was not an appeal. Here is you appeal.
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Stupido
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 15:41
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Will do, thanks
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Sheffield Dave
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 15:56
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Just for the avoidance of doubt: never agree, under any circumstances, to use the you-pay-£25 IPC adjudication if offered. And almost never ever appeal using the free IPC adjudication. The latter will rule against you, while the former will too, and be binding.
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Stupido
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 18:46
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Letter printed and ready to post tomorrow. I used your wording ostell and added that they had treated my information request as an appeal.

Also that I can prove I was not there if need be.

Thanks for the support guys - I might be back when I get a response..

By the way - this was their response to my asking them for proof the car was parked and if so how long:


Thank you for your recent correspondence. In line with our policies, an appeal was logged and this matter investigated.

The signage across the site unambiguously states that the land is privately owned and subject to the parking conditions as displayed. These conditions state that a charge will be due by the driver of any vehicle satisfying the conditions as displayed.

The chargeable condition that applies to the manner in which your vehicle was witnessed to be parked would be covered by the term “No Payment prior to leaving". After reviewing our records, there appears to be no payment received for parking.

We are confident that you have been given the same opportunities to accept the conditions of use, and indeed dispute the issue of the charge, as every other user. It would be a gross injustice if we were not to apply the same criteria to yourself as we have done for the other motorists subject to the charges.

For the sake of consistency we must apply the law uniformly and therefore the charge must stand. In line with our appeals policy we are prepared to offer a further 14 days from the date of this correspondence to pay the discounted rate of £25. On expiry of this period the charge will revert back to the full amount of £50.

Payment can be made by credit/debit card by telephoning 01785 336780 or via our website www.district- enforcement.co.uk. Payment lines operate 24 hours a day. Alternatively you can arrange for a bank transfer of funds to the following account (please ensure you add your PCN number as the reference or the payment will not be reconciled and will remain outstanding): Name of Bank: Barclays Bank Plc Account Name: District Enforcement Ltd Sort Code: 20-81-00 Account No: 33329143

If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection. In order to appeal the IAS will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. For further information please visit
Registered in England and Wales Company No. 07346382. Your details will be processed in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1988, ICO registration Z2376620. Enforcement proceedings are in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1970.
www.theias.org. It should be noted that in the event of the decision being awarded in our favour we will expect the full rate of £50 to be paid.

Yours sincerely,

Appeals Department
District Enforcement Limited
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