PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Mitigating circumstances - I was in labour
Anna-2018
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 02:04
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,586



My husband and I were travelling back to Manchester from a wedding in Leeds in August last year. He was caught doing 36 in a 30. He was anxious because I was pregnant and under consultant care for my thyroid condition and I was in labour. We had our baby 4 hours after he was caught speeding and had to stay in hospital for our baby to be accessed. It was a very stressful time. We received the NIP not long after we got home from the hospital and in my haste I said let's plead out in court with mitigating circumstances. We recently received our evidence pack and in that time I've also looked into whether medical emergencies can be used as mitigating circumstances for speeding and I've found that it's not that easy. I wish we had just taken the 3 points and fine but I was worried about money at the time. Our boiler had broken around that time and our car needed 3 new tyres etc etc. Can anyone help with any points I can bring up in our letter? We will plead guilty with mitigating circumstances. Any help would be much appreciated.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 14)
Advertisement
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 02:04
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Logician
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 02:51
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



It is not "our" letter, it will have to come from your husband, but actually it would be better if he opted to have the case moved to a full court and appeared in person to explain. It is going to need more than just mitigation, because the lowest number of points a court can give for speeding is 3. What he needs to do is ask the court to find that there are "special reasons not to endorse his licence" and also order an absolute discharge.

Medical emergencies have been held to constitute special reasons, but he needs to show that driving over the speed limit was the best option available, as compared to calling an ambulance, say. Evidence that you had your baby 4 hours later would be very helpful. There is a case he could mention, Marks v West Midlands Police [1981] RTR 471, which is really on point, it was held that the minor nature of the offence was a relevant factor (80mph in a 70 mph limit). Mr Marks was worried by his blind incontinent 80 year old passenger becoming ill and was thereby not aware of exceeding the speed limit, being anxious to reach the nearest service area. It does not seem to be online but can be ordered from National Archives LINK. I have just seen a reference to the case, not read it, so you need to read the case carefully. Your husband should take along 5 copies, one for each of the three magistrates, one for the legal advisor and one for himself. It would probably help if you could get to the court as well and sit in the back looking pale and anxious. Good luck.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anna-2018
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 03:16
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,586



Thanks so much for your message. That's exactly what I wanted but didn't explain well; no endorsements and absolute discharge.

We're happy to attend court just didn't want to aggravate the situation. Happy to take your advice though and will request a court date. Thanks again!



Logician: just a quick question. My husband still pleads guilty doesn't he to request no endorsements and absolute discharge?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 08:22
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,195
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



He pleads guilty in reply to the single justice procedure notice (you almost certainly have?) and asks for it to move to an actaul magistrates court for sentancing, much will rely on his (and your) presentation in court as to credability, that is why a written submisison is less likley to succeeed (although the single justice may well refer it to a full court rather than dismiss out of hand).

You 'suggest' you have special reasons not to endorse, I have linked to a (unsuccesful) case below that will give you an understanding of what that means, the salient bit is in paragraph 9
QUOTE
"... one which is special to the facts of the particular case, that is special to the facts which constitute the offence. It is, in other words, a mitigating or extenuating circumstance not amounting in law to a defence to the charge, yet directly connected with the commission of the offence and one which the Court ought properly to take into consideration when imposing punishment. A circumstance peculiar to the offender, as distinguished from the offence, is not a special reason within the exception."


http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?d.../2005/2729.html

You'll note that SRNTE is when you are guilty (hence pleading as such) but that there are circumstances a court has a duty to consider, use the information from that case to put together a SRNTE plea that will 'tick the right boxes' information like regularity of contractions and dilation when you got to hospital etc would all help emphasise the urgency at the time. 4 hours in my (lay) mind is pretty quick so if I were on the bench I would certainly not dismiss a plea out of hand (our two took circa 12 hours in hospital). One assumes you went straight to hospital at the end of that journey, not passing go and collecting £200 on the way?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anna-2018
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 10:12
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,586



Hi Rookie,

Thanks for the case study. I will use it to write a letter of mitigation that my husband will use as a basis at court. Will bring my babies birth book to show what time she was born and hospital visitation letters to suggest frame of mind throughout pregnancy and afterwards. I think this will all aid our slight misjudgement of speed at the time (still I know no excuse).

We had to go home to pick up my hospital bag. I know. School boy error not taking it with me. As I was not actually 4 mins apart we decided to wait at home for an hour or so. I called the midwife at 10pm and whilst on the phone my waters broke. Got to the hospital at 10:20 and she was born at 11pm with minutes to spare having taken some time to walk up to the 2nd floor of the hospital.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 10:23
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,195
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (Anna-2018 @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 11:12) *
As I was not actually 4 mins apart we decided to wait at home for an hour or so.

That is going to be a problem I'm afraid.......your husband can't argue that he genuinely believed there was a need to rush you to hospital if you then waited at home for an hour (unless you can honestly say something happened to change opinion between the speeding and deciding to wait at home). Im not saying you won't be succesful, but I think the odds are heavily stacked against him.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anna-2018
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 10:41
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,586



Hi Rookie I understand what you mean. My contractions had started to slow down. I'm not sure if it was from sitting in the car over to Manchester. I thought they would turn me away at hospital so thought I'll stay at home an hour and then go. When I called the midwife she asked me to come immediately and then after I got there I gave birth within 30 minutes. All I can do at this stage is present it all and see what they say. Thank you very much for your help.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 11:11
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,306
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



I think your husband just needs to genuinely explain what he was feeling at that time. Both the magistrates and him are lay people and "the baby's coming" does tend to put you into emergency mode.

Even midwives will not be able to give a definite "you have at least x hours".

The fact the baby came four hours rather than four days later obviously supports that you were in the later stages.

Was it your first baby? Inexperience and lots of films where you drive to hospital at break neck speed with your wife screaming in the seat next to you never gives an accurate idea of timescales.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anna-2018
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 11:17
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,586



No it was our second but it was a lot more complicated in some ways we had just left our first born with grandparents atfter the wedding unexpectedly. I think you're right Notmeatloaf. We just have to put forward an honest and emotional plea. Thanks agin all.

Keep the suggestions coming as it's helping me form a plea in my head which I will put down on paper ASAP.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 11:32
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,503
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Going guilty is the way to go but its going to be difficult to convince the bench there was a 'genuine emergency' that necessitated exceeding the limit.

It doesn't appear a 'duress' defence applies (which is a higher level) which requires a immediate threat to life or serious injury.

As noted the bench may be sympathetic but I would prepare myself for the possibility they don't oblige. It's not particularly high risk but the fine would be 33% of weekly earnings, costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30). I can't see them agreeing to fine at fixed level penalty (with no costs order) but they might oblige under a sympathetic angle.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 14:35
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,744
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



In fact pleading guilty is the only realistic option. The offence was committed and nothing you have mentioned forms any sort of defence.

Whether a court decides that "Special Reasons" (not to endorse) are made out is anybody's guess. But you (or rather your husband) is where he is and there is no going back. The options of a Fixed Penalty or Speed Awareness course are gone. It may be prudent to have two strings to his bow: firstly he must ask the court to consider his "Special Reasons" argument. If that should fail he can ask the court to indulge him a little and sentence him at the Fixed Penalty level (£100 and 3 points, with no costs or surcharge). The court has the discretion to do this when it would be justified for reasons unconnected to the offence itself. The only reason he is in court (and not being dealt with by way of a Fixed Penalty) is because he wanted to put forward his "Special Reasons" argument. He has, in my view, good grounds to be sentenced at the Fixed Penalty level should that argument fail.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anna-2018
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 18:19
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,586



Thank you all. You're helping me think it through from all points of view. At the end of the day I can only present the facts and hope for leniency.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 19:11
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



QUOTE (Anna-2018 @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 18:19) *
Thank you all. You're helping me think it through from all points of view. At the end of the day I can only present the facts and hope for leniency.


Indeed, but do try to get a copy of the case I mentioned because it does make the point that your husband does not actually have to show that speed was essential for your well-being. There is a difference between proving necessity, which would amount to a defence against the charge, and showing that there was a factor which should properly be taken into account, and amounted to a special reason not to endorse.



--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anna-2018
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 23:10
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 57
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,586



I just want to thank you all. I've spent some time tonight writing a letter of mitigation to use in person in court. It's brought up some memories of that time and how anxious we were.

Rookie and Logician: thank you for the case studies. They've been especially helpful. I think I can definitely explain our situation as constituting as mitigating circumstances. Im not defending the speeding just pleading for leniency. Its a Band A offence and I'm hoping that the other medical issues surrounding my newborn daughter (that I didn't divulge above) will all help with the sentencing.

Genuinely touched that you all contributed to forming the words in my letter. It's been a tough one because of the circumstances (blubbering mess right now tongue.gif )
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 01:29
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



Giving birth is an extraordinarily emotional time even if all goes well, throw in this speeding business and medical problems and no wonder you are blubbering, more surprising if you were not.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 10:26
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here