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SJPN received today (totting), Threads merged
wwstwh
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 15:42
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Hi. I have managed to earn myself 9 points + a lucky escape of a course, and then of course went and won another 3 points as well.

Of course, I couldn't accept and pay for that last fine since I already had 9 points, so it will be referred to court. My questions are:

1) How long does it normally take, roughly when would a court date be likely - how long after the offence or after the FP offer expires?
2) Am I certain to face a ban unless I present a sob story about needing my car to save orphaned dolphins or whatever it is?
3) How long is this ban likely to be? I couldn't quite understand, is 6mo the minimum?

Many thanks, guys.

If it makes any difference, I went ten years with a clean licence and then got all my points in the space of a few months, most within a few weeks. All very silly. They were very late at night/early morning and on quiet roads and not like at 3pm outside a school or anything. I could quite fairly present a particular mental health reason behind my distraction and poor judgement, but I don't know how well that would work since it may just be taken to mean I should not have been driving at all.

Thanks,


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post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 15:42
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The Rookie
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 15:46
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1) they will often take near the six months they have from the date of the offence in which to commence proceedings.
2) Yes, 6 months for totting
3) Will be six months absent a successful exceptional hardship plea which would reduce the ban, potentially to zero.

Not at all relevant, unless it amounts to a defence you’ll still tott, if so the circumstances of getting the points isn’t (strictly at least) relevant to any exceptional hardship plea.


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Jlc
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 15:58
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QUOTE (wwstwh @ Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 15:42) *
2) Am I certain to face a ban unless I present a sob story about needing my car to save orphaned dolphins or whatever it is?

Yes. The EH plea gives you the opportunity to reduce it (potentially to none).

The impact on others carries more weight. So the dolphins could swing it. Do you have any genuine likelihood of exceptional hardship?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 19:32
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QUOTE
I could quite fairly present a particular mental health reason behind my distraction and poor judgement, but I don't know how well that would work since it may just be taken to mean I should not have been driving at all.


I think the danger is more that a court might wonder whether you should be driving in the future, and this is perhaps something you should discuss with your doctor anyway. As far as your case is concerned, it will not help you simply to raise the issue as mitigation, because the minimum number of points the court could give is 3, which would make you a totter. What you would have to convince the court is that your condition amounted to a complete defence, and that would be extremely difficult if you knew what you were doing at the time.

I think you need to consider to what extent you, and more importantly others, are dependant on your driving in order to put together an exceptional hardship argument.


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andy_foster
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 20:01
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QUOTE (wwstwh @ Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 15:42) *
3) How long is this ban likely to be? I couldn't quite understand, is 6mo the minimum?


According to the legislation, 6 months is the minimum ban for totting (unless the court finds that such a ban would cause exceptional hardship), unless you have been banned in the previous 3 years, in which case the minimum is 12 months. However, in reality, 6 months is the ban (unless the court makes a finding of exceptional hardship).

If you were caught by a speed camera, it could easily be 8 or 9 months (from date of offence) before you go to court.


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cp8759
post Wed, 20 Feb 2019 - 00:47
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QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 19:32) *
What you would have to convince the court is that your condition amounted to a complete defence, and that would be extremely difficult if you knew what you were doing at the time.

A medical condition can amount to a defence in some circumstances, but then the court might wonder why you haven't voluntarily surrounded your licence on medical grounds.


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wwstwh
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 13:22
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EDIT: sorry, I was sure I posted this before but I couldn't find the thread! Thanks.

So the only other question, when a summons does come, how much notice might I get?

Thanks,

This post has been edited by wwstwh: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 14:12
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BaggieBoy
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 13:49
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It likely they won't issue court papers until close the 6 month point, so you may no get anything until later June or July.

Original thread here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=126130&hl=
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The Rookie
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 15:35
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You’ll have 21 days to respond to the likley SJPN, they will then transfer it to a full court hearing which is likely to take another 2 months, you’ll get at least three weeks notice of the date. Not sure if that answers your question which you probably though had a simple answer.....


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traptraptrap
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 17:31
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i assume you can drive in the period that your waiting to go to court?
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Jlc
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 18:40
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QUOTE (traptraptrap @ Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 18:31) *
i assume you can drive in the period that your waiting to go to court?

Yes. But the ban starts immediately so you can't drive home from the court.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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wwstwh
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 20:41
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QUOTE (traptraptrap @ Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 18:31) *
i assume you can drive in the period that your waiting to go to court?


I had better get all my road trips done this summer, then sad.gif

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wwstwh
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 16:58
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I had the idea from another thread that doing an advanced driving course now may be of benefit when the court hearing comes around, any thoughts on that?
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Jlc
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 17:40
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That might give a reason for the bench to consider a lower sentence but cannot endorse less than 3 points.

It makes no difference to an EH plea.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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NewJudge
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 20:27
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The guidelines for Speeding offences are fairly prescriptive and it is unlikely to make any material difference whatsoever. Save the money for your fine.
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wwstwh
post Thu, 9 May 2019 - 12:25
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 2 May 2019 - 21:27) *
The guidelines for Speeding offences are fairly prescriptive and it is unlikely to make any material difference whatsoever. Save the money for your fine.


What's the fine likely to be in each possible outcome, i.e. ban & licence wiped clean / no ban and retain 12pts?

Just checked insurance quotes and mine has doubled as a result of my 9pts, sight. Very very expensive mistakes.
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Slapdash
post Thu, 9 May 2019 - 12:31
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You will probably find the insurance even worse after a totting ban. I recall you end up with a conviction code of XX99 which obviously needs declaring.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 9 May 2019 - 13:26
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The fine will be for the speeding offence, there is no fine for totting.

The fine depends on the speed and limit which I can’t see mentioned.....


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Logician
post Thu, 9 May 2019 - 15:29
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QUOTE (wwstwh @ Thu, 2 May 2019 - 16:58) *
I had the idea from another thread that doing an advanced driving course now may be of benefit when the court hearing comes around, any thoughts on that?


As New Judge has already said, it is extremely unlikely to make any difference whatsoever, and I wish people here would stop suggesting it. It may benefit your driving in the future, so you may think it worthwhile from that point of view, but do not do it with the hope of affecting your sentence.



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wwstwh
post Tue, 4 Jun 2019 - 12:00
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Hi, all. I got my SJPN today, which I had been expecting for some time.

I have 21 days to submit a reply.

Brief background of my case:
9 points gained within the space of a few weeks, then another 3 (37 in a 30). Previously clean licence for ten+ years. Genuine "reasons" for my erratic behaviour but nothing a court would consider or that I'd particularly want to bring up with them.

Questions:

1) If I want to attempt an EH case, must I plead Guilty and then fill in the "Mitigation" box?

2) Should I give full and complete details of the EH here or wait until I'm in court?

3) I see that the Not Guilty pages offer me the chance to call witnesses and so on - do I also need to do this for EH? Typically, an EH case involves other people, right, so how are these people invovled on the day?

For example, if I tell the court that I drive Grandma Bloggs to and from the hospital every week and she doesn't trust anyone else etc etc, does the poor old thing have to come to court and confirm my story?

4) How useful are solicitors, will they help me to prepare a more successful EH case in the first place, or will they merely act as an advocate? I'm confident in formal situations and believe I could address the court without trouble, but I don't know much about what a successful EH case looks like, of course. I would consider engaging a solicitor if my chances of success were much improved.

I assume a Not Guilty plea is not the done thing, since I have already long ago admitted I was the driver, right?

Thanks! I'll try to keep my case in this thread so others can benefit from it as well.

FYI, time from the Penalty Offer (which I could not accept, 9pts already) to this SJPN was around four months.

Thanks in advance,

This post has been edited by wwstwh: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 - 12:02
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