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Bailiffs attending old address, Threads merged
C-Sec
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 21:21
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Evening everyone!

Okay- On 07/09/17 I received a phone call from my old letting agent. She told me that bailiffs had attended my old address looking for me, due to 2 unpaid PCN's.
I jumped on the back of my friend's motorbike and headed straight to my old address. I spoke to the tenants who said they'd received numerous letters in my name; (For some reason instead of forwarding them to me, they returned them to sender.) They told me that they'd had several visits from bailiffs. They started getting annoyed by the visits and so told the letting agent.

Obviously shocked at hearing this, I spent all weekend ringing and emailing the council, traffic enforcement centre etc. to try and find out what was going on. The council was useless and still haven't replied. I spoke with the TEC who told me not to worry, and to just find out the PCN numbers so I could then sort them. Limited with what I could do over the weekend, I found this website.

Finally, new letters came to my old address. The tenants took them straight to my letting agent and I finally got the PCN's scanned over to me today (11/09/2017). This is the very first time I have been able to see the alleged offences.

They are both from the same day for contravening a keep left sign. The first is at 19:28pm on 10/06/2017 and the second is at 23:14pm on 10/06/2017.

It's now 3 months later, and the very first I've heard of any of this. Shockingly, It's been to court already and bailiffs assigned!

When I moved address, I changed it on my driving licence. I am almost certain that I also updated the registered keeper's address with the DVLA, however I have since sold the car and the V5 has gone with it, so I have no way of checking. All of my DVLA correspondence comes to my new address, and I do honestly think I changed it over. I can't remember.

I watched the live evidence online, and it is blatantly me. I have no problem putting my hands up and admitting it. I'm on CCTV going offside round a keep left sign, to do a cheeky right turn into asda.

My concern however is:

1- I would have paid immediately if I'd recieved the PCN's. As I said, I'm bang to rights- and would have paid both reduced fines of £65.
2- Having this already been to court, I'm concerned I now have a CCJ issued which will ruin my credit rating?

Help!!

I vaguely understand that I need to fill in a form (PE3?) and submit it to court. If accepted, this will rewind all of this nightmare, so that I can just pay the reduced fees. Currently, the council wants me to pay £406- for an offence I won't even get points for.

Thanks for reading.

PCN1
PCN2
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post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 21:21
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Neil B
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 21:43
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Why do you think bailiffs are involved?

Highly unlikely.



--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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C-Sec
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 21:51
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Hi Neil,

Speaking to the tenants- they said 'Several bailiffs have come knocking at the door. I didn't catch their details, but they were proper; wearing chest cameras and they would only leave when I showed our tenancy agreement proving that you didn't live here anymore.'

On the PCN's, it also states "on the authority of the Traffic Enforcement Center.... Order for recovery of unpaid pentalty charge." "If you do nothing your possessions may be removed and sold to pay this charge"

That's all I know
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Neil B
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 21:53
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QUOTE (C-Sec @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:21) *
They told me that they'd had several visits from bailiffs. They started getting annoyed by the visits and so told the letting agent.

Which is worrying because either they've made that up or you have at least one older PCN.

Bailiffs cannot have visited for these.

QUOTE (C-Sec @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:21) *
They are both from the same day for contravening a keep left sign. The first is at 19:28pm on 10/06/2017 and the second is at 23:14pm on 10/06/2017.

How do you know this?


--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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C-Sec
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 21:59
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Today I recieved a phone call from the letting agent, saying the tenants had been in and left 2 letters for me. These were scanned and emailed to me as I live miles away. I have attached the PCN's to my original post, but they both say the dates and times of the offence on, and that I contravened a keep left sign.

I put the codes into the Ealing council evidence viewer, and both show me contravening the sign at 2 different times.

I see no reason for them to lie, however I did think it was excessive for 3 months... Also, the PCN states "If you do nothing your possessions may be removed and sold to pay this charge"; which would suggest that this is the step before bailiffs etc. get involved?
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Neil B
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:01
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QUOTE (C-Sec @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:59) *
I have attached the PCN's to my original post, but they both say the dates and times of the offence on,

I see now.
I didn't expect to scroll down and find a PCN you never received.


--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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C-Sec
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:02
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They did say that they'd returned all the other correspondence to the sender. If I do have another PCN, I have no idea for what, or even which council? The tenants originally said 'The bailiffs told us it was something to do with a bus lane in brent or ealing.'

...With the ones I have being in ealing, right next to a bus lane- I presumed that these are what they had meant? :S
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Neil B
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:06
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They haven't sent you everything. PE3 is the back of OfR.

But downloadable from hmcts form finder.

The date 6/9/17 is either the date sent (which OfRs don't normally have) or
the deadline date, in which case you are late ------ but might not be -- wait a mo.


--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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Neil B
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:24
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--

Phone TEC first thing.
Ask -

1. What date(s) these debts were registered?

2. The deadline for you to make an 'in-time' Statutory Declaration?
(if 6/9, on the OfR was the deadline, TEC might be working to slightly longer.
I have no time to explain)

If in time, get the PE3s sworn and filed. e-mail them.
If they say you are too late, ask them to e-mail you forms to make an Out of Time Stat Dec
(do not try to complete these without our help)

3. Explain to TEC you also hear a bailiff has been visiting your old address so you must have an older PCN.
Ask them very politely to do a search of your name/address/VRM, whichever they can use to identify it - or them.

If more identified, get OOT forms for that/those as well.



--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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C-Sec
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:30
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Brilliant,

I'll do that first thing. (I was on the phone all day today to TEC but couldn't get through to anyone.)
I'll get the forms and update tomorrow with any developments. Thanks so much for your help, what a nightmare.
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Neil B
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:36
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-

Even if you can file the first two 'in time' you should still let us check the
completed PE3 forms.

You can fill them in now anyway; they are the same in or out of time.

--
None of these debts are listed as CCJs in the way you mean.

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCT...t_forms_id=2709


If you identify the older one, start a separate topic for it - and prepare for
some hard work.


--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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C-Sec
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 09:26
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Morning,

Just an update.- I finally managed to get through to the TEC.

1- both PCN's were registered on 01/09/2017.
2- The deadline is 36 days from then, (which she then told me was apparently 06/10/2017, which would be only 30 days)
3- I tried my best, but she said they have no system in which they can check that. She can only put PCN numbers in for a result, not a registration or name etc.

Her advice was to try and revoke these 2 PCN's with the court, and in the meantime try and get in touch with Ealing council. I explained that it's all automated and that I couldn't speak to anybody but that's all she could suggest. :/ She confirmed that there won't be any bailiff action for these 2, leaving me beyond belief that I must have a third?!
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C-Sec
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 10:26
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Morning all,

Would anybody mind checking my PE3 form over please?
Also any advice as to where best to get it 'witnessed'? Is it worth just going to the local magistrates court?

Attached File  REDACTED.pdf ( 211.06K ) Number of downloads: 38


Thanks - C-Sec
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Neil B
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 11:11
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QUOTE (C-Sec @ Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 11:26) *
Morning all,

Would anybody mind checking my PE3 form over please?
Also any advice as to where best to get it 'witnessed'? Is it worth just going to the local magistrates court?

Attached File  REDACTED.pdf ( 211.06K ) Number of downloads: 38


Thanks - C-Sec

Ooops.

You got a bit carried away. biggrin.gif

'Applicant' is not you, where you've blanked over. Put 'London Borough of Ealing'.

You haven't ticked any box? Tick the one that applies.

In the details box, remove your rival to War and Peace and put

'I did not receive the PCN due to a change of address.'

Sworn for free at County Ct.
Do not sign until told.


--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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C-Sec
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 11:29
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Attached File  changed.pdf ( 205.67K ) Number of downloads: 33


So just this? I was concerned about it saying 'Give full reasons' sad.gif
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Neil B
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 11:47
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The form is due for replacement - obsolete.

That box doesn't get read.
This Court is a 'factory'; this flies through with hundreds of others.

I'd remove the date until ready.

Just checking - which address have you used? Should be your current.

and just curious -

you keep blanking 'location' ?

We fight and beat thousands of PCNs, particularly relative to location.


--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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C-Sec
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 11:52
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Yeah, current address. And just habit when i'm sanitising it. It's Park Royal in Ealing...

So with that form now done, and another with the other PCN code on- go to get them both signed at Willesden county court, then email them over to TEC?

and in the meantime, keep pestering the council to try and find out about this last PCN which i know nothing about?
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Neil B
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 12:10
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Yes to the first bit. Processing deadline 4pm but no rush on those; well in time.

QUOTE (C-Sec @ Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 12:52) *
and in the meantime, keep pestering the council to try and find out about this last PCN which i know nothing about?

Yep; you need to be very concerned at that one - or more?

You could try TEC again. A member here says they can search but remit is not to, due busy.
Another CS clerk might be more helpful.

e-mail all likely Councils for PCNs against VRM.

At a push, keeping your address to yourself, phone round bailiffs?
Newlyns, Marstons, JBW, others.
ALL you need is PCN number(s) from them.

--
Just be clear, you do not want the baliff finding you first.

The mechanism for resetting old ones is much harder.
You should start compiling/collating facts NOW.

Move from ? - evidence ?
To -----ditto ----
DVLA update ?

etc.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 12:11


--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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C-Sec
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 12:25
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I spoke to TEC again, a different clerk. He was alot better, but was 100% that they couldn't search details without having a PCN number. :/ Il have to keep trying the council for a 3rd day
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C-Sec
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 12:41
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Ealing council refused to help me, saying i can only find out through TEC. I rang all of the bailiffs above who checked their systems, and found nothing ¬¬ grrrr
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