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NOTICE OF APPOINTMENT AS DEBT COLLECTORS
sandygarg
post Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 19:13
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Dear Sir,

I was shocked to received a letter from the debt collector company with total outstanding amount as 392.00£ sad.gif, the details of this letter is as follows

"
Client: London borough of ealing
Contravention date: 01/12/2015
VRM: ******* (this is the VRM of my vehicle)
Location: The broadway/ herbert Road Southall 818

We have been instructed by the London borough of ealing to recover the above parking charges which remain outstanding.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER. FURTHER ACTION MAY BE TAKEN AT CONSIDERABLE COST TO YOU IF THE DEBT IS NOT CLEARED.
"

the letter is just one page without any further details of the PCN and contravention date is 08/12/2015. I had never received any other letter from London Borough Of Ealing and I am totally confused what shall I do now. The debt company is asking a heft charge of 392 and there is no way I can pay that, even my car is even less than that.

Please advise what shall I do, how can I challenge this letter and PCN etc.

Many Thanks
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post Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 19:13
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Neil B
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 20:43
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QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:35) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:29) *
So,
you first need to find out if there are live warrants for these PCNs (or ever have been).


how can I find that out, please advice?
We have to establish what is going on first. I'm coming to that.

QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:29) *
Newlyn have been less than helpful, not giving PCN numbers -- or have they and you've blanked it out?


I only blanked out the "Newlyn Ref", Client Ref, VRM and Payment Barcode and nothing else. There is no mention of PCN unless they are same as "Newlyn Ref", which I don't know.
What is next to each of the 202 amounts.

When you say there are 2 PCNs, does it mean I made the same mistake TWICE? Maybe: It's 2 different PCNs for something but they only mention one date.
Again, we'll find out.




--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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sandygarg
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 20:52
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:29) *
Newlyn have been less than helpful, not giving PCN numbers -- or have they and you've blanked it out?

I only blanked out the "Newlyn Ref", Client Ref, VRM and Payment Barcode and nothing else. There is no mention of PCN unless they are same as "Newlyn Ref", which I don't know.
What is next to each of the 202 amounts.



Current Outstanding Account
Newlyn Ref Balance
1234567 (this is 7 digit number) £202.00
9999999 (this is 7 digit number) £202.00
Total £404.00

Both of the above "Newlyn Ref" numbers are different.

The first Newlyn Ref number mentioned against the first 202 amount is same as mentioned within the SQAURE BOX "Newlyn Ref" which i blanked out.

Looks like this is going to be very messy and painful sad.gif

This post has been edited by sandygarg: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 20:55
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Neil B
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:10
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QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:52) *
Looks like this is going to be very messy and painful sad.gif

We are making progress.

The only way to find out if warrants are live is to call TEC and ask.

But u can't without PCN numbers.

The only people who can tell you those are Ealing or Newlyn.

Several people report being unable to speak to anyone at Ealing recently.

So that leaves Newlyn - and I'm not sure. That is like kicking the tiger's cage; it might make them escalate
the matter if they do indeed have warrants.

It might be they've found 'an' address they think is you and want to confirm before escalating. Those refs are
clearly made-up/fake 1234567 and 9999999 ?

So, for now -
Now that we've established, loosely, what this demand is, I want to wait for the views of other members.

And, I'm going to contact someone who knows Newlyn better than any of us.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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sandygarg
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:16
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:10) *
QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:52) *
Looks like this is going to be very messy and painful sad.gif

We are making progress.

The only way to find out if warrants are live is to call TEC and ask.

But u can't without PCN numbers.

The only people who can tell you those are Ealing or Newlyn.

Several people report being unable to speak to anyone at Ealing recently.

So that leaves Newlyn - and I'm not sure. That is like kicking the tiger's cage; it might make them escalate
the matter if they do indeed have warrants.

It might be they've found 'an' address they think is you and want to confirm before escalating. Those refs are
clearly made-up/fake 1234567 and 9999999 ?

So, for now -
Now that we've established, loosely, what this demand is, I want to wait for the views of other members.

And, I'm going to contact someone who knows Newlyn better than any of us.


Sorry I should have mentioned that these "Newlyn Ref" are proper 7 digit numbers and I made them up to 1234567 and 9999999 to explain them here and not to mention the right numbers on the public forum.

Many thanks Neil for doing so much efforts at this time of the hour for me. I highly appreciate it.
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Neil B
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:23
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QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:16) *
Sorry I should have mentioned that these "Newlyn Ref" are proper 7 digit numbers and I made them up to 1234567 and 9999999 to explain them here and not to mention the right numbers on the public forum.

Many thanks Neil for doing so much efforts at this time of the hour for me. I highly appreciate it.

Growl.

So they might be partial PCN numbers. (1 digit and 2 letters short)

Let's see what others think tomorrow.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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sandygarg
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:27
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:23) *
QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:16) *
Sorry I should have mentioned that these "Newlyn Ref" are proper 7 digit numbers and I made them up to 1234567 and 9999999 to explain them here and not to mention the right numbers on the public forum.

Many thanks Neil for doing so much efforts at this time of the hour for me. I highly appreciate it.

Growl.

So they might be partial PCN numbers. (1 digit and 2 letters short)

Let's see what others think tomorrow.


okay.

Good night Neil and many thanks once again.

Enjoy your weekend!
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Neil B
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 21:28
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-

@ members.
Was curious about warrants so one thing I've looked for is a time limit on a Council application
for a warrant of control. i.e. how long after OfR deadline expires.

Can't find one in CPR so it seems unlimited?
Might be wrong.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Guest_Bogsy_*
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:05
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:28) *
-

@ members.
Was curious about warrants so one thing I've looked for is a time limit on a Council application
for a warrant of control. i.e. how long after OfR deadline expires.

Can't find one in CPR so it seems unlimited?
Might be wrong.


It seems no specific time limit is stated in legislation but courts have determined that anything longer than 6 months in serving a formal notice (such as an NTO for example) is unreasonable so the same time restraint might apply to warrants if challenged in a court. I've still been unable to find where the law allows a council to add the £8 debt registration charge to the OfR and to then add it to the warrant of control. Any ideas or is it possible that this £8 charge is akin to the pay by credit card unlawful surcharge?


This post has been edited by Bogsy: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:06
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Neil B
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:15
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You've asked a few times Bogsy and same here: I've looked, inspired by your question but found nowt.

Yes aware of general reasonableness but that's the realm of adjudicators.
I'm curious to know, if they've never applied for warrants for these, if they can now.
At £7 registration each, these were registered at least a year ago I think.

If they did get warrants then, @ 12 months life, they may have expired and this is a forlorn try-on by
Ealing/Newlyn.

btw I've lost your e-mail address. Ping mine if you still have it?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
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Guest_Bogsy_*
post Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 23:30
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 23:15) *
You've asked a few times Bogsy and same here: I've looked, inspired by your question but found nowt.

btw I've lost your e-mail address. Ping mine if you still have it?


PM'd you my email NB. No one else has found the answer either which is encouraging. Imagine that fee being ultra vires! If something sounds too good to be true then it usually is. Some input from Southpaw would be good here. SP are you watching/reading?

This post has been edited by Bogsy: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 23:32
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Enceladus
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 00:48
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QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:16) *
Sorry I should have mentioned that these "Newlyn Ref" are proper 7 digit numbers and I made them up to 1234567 and 9999999 to explain them here and not to mention the right numbers on the public forum.

So are the amounts of £202 actually on the letter or did you make them up as well?

We don't know the alleged contravention(s) as yet however a higher rate Ealing PCN is £110 and the lower rate is £60.
I can't get to £202 or £404 by adding the permitted charges using those numbers as the starting points?

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Neil B
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 05:42
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QUOTE (Enceladus @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 01:48) *
We don't know the alleged contravention(s) as yet however a higher rate Ealing PCN is £110 and the lower rate is £60.
I can't get to £202 or £404 by adding the permitted charges using those numbers as the starting points?

Given the location, they're likely MT PCNs.

ALL London MT are £130 I think.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 05:45


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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lashes1984
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 05:53
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:23) *
QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:16) *
Sorry I should have mentioned that these "Newlyn Ref" are proper 7 digit numbers and I made them up to 1234567 and 9999999 to explain them here and not to mention the right numbers on the public forum.

Many thanks Neil for doing so much efforts at this time of the hour for me. I highly appreciate it.

Growl.

So they might be partial PCN numbers. (1 digit and 2 letters short)

Let's see what others think tomorrow.


From my own dealings with Newlyn the reference numbers are a Newlyn Account Reference and not partial PCN numbers.

QUOTE (Enceladus @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 01:48) *
QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:16) *
Sorry I should have mentioned that these "Newlyn Ref" are proper 7 digit numbers and I made them up to 1234567 and 9999999 to explain them here and not to mention the right numbers on the public forum.

So are the amounts of £202 actually on the letter or did you make them up as well?

We don't know the alleged contravention(s) as yet however a higher rate Ealing PCN is £110 and the lower rate is £60.
I can't get to £202 or £404 by adding the permitted charges using those numbers as the starting points?


The OP didn't make them up as they are on the top right hand corner of the doc that was posted.

Looking at the location I think it's possibly a MTC (No entry or YBJ) which would explain the amount.
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hcandersen
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 08:10
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You either ignore or action.

Ignore
The debt collectors know where you are, so what possible advantage could ignoring the letter bring? I'm clearer about what risks go with such an approach rather than advantage.

Action
You have to engage with the enforcement process. You either pay or look to challenge. If paying at this stage is ruled out, then you must look to challenge.
But how?
You must contact the debt collectors or council. I suggest play a straight bat and get back to the debt collector who has NO idea whether the claim is genuine, all they know is that they've been commissioned by the council but know nothing about the preceding enforcement process. Contact them, do not be confrontational, just factual.
Re your letter, I know nothing of the parking charges (that's the term they've used in the letter) to which you refer. I have not received any communiction from your principal - the council- and your letter does not give me any detail. I need the penalty charge notice numbers please, what are they?

Straightforward, positive, non-confrontational. And get the name of the person before you go into detail, not afterwards.


With respect, minute examination of charges, numbers etc. gets us nowhere at present. Such detail might be needed down the line, but IMO what you must do now is play a straight bat: someone has sent you a demand in writing for £404 about which you know nothing. With respect, the normal response would have been to get back to the person and say what the hell is this about and not lose 2 weeks (and counting) without being any further forward.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 08:16
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sandygarg
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 10:20
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QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 22:16) *
Looking at the location I think it's possibly a MTC (No entry or YBJ) which would explain the amount.


I just checked online that "HERBERT ROAD in SOUTHALL" is a "NO ENTRY" road, but I don't remember using that road, I might be wrong though. Also found this post about Herbert road http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=96284

This post has been edited by sandygarg: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 10:23
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Neil B
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 12:46
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QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 11:20) *
I just checked online that "HERBERT ROAD in SOUTHALL" is a "NO ENTRY" road, but I don't remember using that road, I might be wrong though. Also found this post about Herbert road http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=96284

Yeah, we knew that a week ago Sandy.
You mustn't concern yourself with the contravention right now.

You need to concentrate on the fact that two PCN debts have been registered against you at the Court and we need to
identify their current status.

I don't recall anyone suggesting you ignore these, btw.

QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 09:10) *
You must contact the debt collectors or council. I need the penalty charge notice numbers please, what are they?

and I agree it should be Newlyns, not least because their phones are open today and Ealing are reportedly impossible
to contact at any time.

So, get on the phone Sandy and come back with the info.

Then we can move on to speaking with TEC on what action is needed - if any.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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sandygarg
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 14:12
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 13:46) *
You need to concentrate on the fact that two PCN debts have been registered against you at the Court and we need to
identify their current status.


Thanks Neil.

Are we absolutely sure that this matter is already in Court?
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Neil B
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 14:25
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QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 15:12) *
Are we absolutely sure that this matter is already in Court?

'Court' is misleading to Joe Public.

TEC is a big 'factory' processing thousands of PCN debts.

Councils pay a fee to 'register' a debt. It was £7, now £8.

Your £202 amounts include £7 - by working out. So yes, the debts are registered
with the Court - but a long while ago.

Phones open until 4pm !

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 14:20


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
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sandygarg
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 14:38
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 15:25) *
QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 15:12) *
Are we absolutely sure that this matter is already in Court?

'Court' is misleading to Joe Public.

TEC is a big 'factory' processing thousands of PCN debts.

Councils pay a fee to 'register' a debt. It was £7, now £8.

Your £202 amounts include £7 - by working out. So yes, the debts are registered
with the Court - but a long while ago.

Phones open until 4pm !


Ok, I just finished my call with Newlyn and she provided me with the TWO PCNs (one contravention is 8 Dec 2015 and other one is at 2 Jan 2016, both at Herbert Road Southall)

the matter has already been reported to TEC Northampton and there is a Liability order against me and warrant of control link against my current address.

the Ealing council now contacted Newlyn to recover the money. They are due to visit my property on 18th Sep 2017 to take my car away sad.gif

Surprisingly Ealing council gave Newlyn my current address but why on earth they never sent any PCN to my current address.

As per Newlyn I need to contact Ealing council and find out to which address they sent the original PCN.

I also tried to find out the details of PCN from https://viewmypcn.co.uk/default.aspx, but they will take 24 hrs to give me any details of PCNs.

what a hell is this? sad.gif

This post has been edited by sandygarg: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 14:43
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Neil B
post Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 14:57
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QUOTE (sandygarg @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 15:38) *
what a hell is this? sad.gif

Nothing unusual.

I'll post in a mo.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
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