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How did this even get to tribunal?, Police to review tests for dog handlers to avoid discrimination
Unzippy
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 13:19
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/12...discrimination/

It’s not discrimination based on sex, it’s based on strength and fitness.
Jobs have person specifications for a reason. The suitability is hard because it very loosely replicates what is required in the job. If you can't lift a 35 kilo dog over fences and cover terrain that's nasty, shitty, rough, then deal with a suspect who wants to fight you at the end of it all then this job isn’t for you.
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post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 13:19
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DancingDad
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 13:34
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QUOTE (Unzippy @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 13:19) *
... then deal with a suspect who wants to fight you at the end of it all...


That's what the dog is for smile.gif

But it does rather smack of "let's lower the standard to suit"

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southpaw82
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 13:53
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Google "indirect discrimination".


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Unzippy
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:06
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QUOTE
Indirect discrimination is when there's a practice, policy or rule which applies to everyone in the same way, but it has a worse effect on some people than others.


Quite, it has a worse effect on the people that don’t meet the person specification for that job.

I couldn’t be a RAF pilot as it the job spec states you need full colour vision. Who do I sue?

BTW, 35kg is pretty light for a land shark, most are well over 40kg. A dog handler that can’t physically control their dog is a distinct liabilty.

This post has been edited by Unzippy: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:03
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southpaw82
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:45
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QUOTE (Unzippy @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:06) *
QUOTE
Indirect discrimination is when there's a practice, policy or rule which applies to everyone in the same way, but it has a worse effect on some people than others.


Quite, it has a worse effect on the people that don’t meet the person specification for that job.


Presumably the finding was that it has a disproportionate effect on women.



QUOTE
BTW, 35kg is pretty light for a land shark, most are well over 40kg. A dog handler that can’t physically control their dog is a distinct liabilty.

I agree.


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andy_foster
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:53
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Presumably the women had the added burden of also having to make the tea?


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mickR
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 19:07
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I sympathise with the poor lady! Carrying a large dog is very difficult when shes got to contend with a handbag as well ohmy.gif

This post has been edited by mickR: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 19:56
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glasgow_bhoy
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 02:49
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If I can pass the police fitness test I think anyone can...

Anyway why the 10 mile run? The poor dog would be exhausted far before its human master.
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paulajayne
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:15
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It doesn’t discriminate against women.

It discriminates against people who can’t pass it.

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StuartBu
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 11:06
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QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 02:49) *
If I can pass the police fitness test I think anyone can...

Anyway why the 10 mile run? The poor dog would be exhausted far before its human master.


What Cop ever had to run 10 miles with or without a mutt???
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mickR
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 12:01
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So are all the male Pcs who fail the test now going to claim discrimination by way of being a sissy girl?
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cp8759
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 14:08
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QUOTE (Unzippy @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 13:19) *
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/12...discrimination/

It’s not discrimination based on sex, it’s based on strength and fitness.
Jobs have person specifications for a reason. The suitability is hard because it very loosely replicates what is required in the job. If you can't lift a 35 kilo dog over fences and cover terrain that's nasty, shitty, rough, then deal with a suspect who wants to fight you at the end of it all then this job isn’t for you.

Surely this is a step in the right direction to create a more equal society, hopefully in the near future employer won't be able to unlawfully discriminate based on intelligence, skills, ability or qualifications either!


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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DancingDad
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 21:11
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 14:08) *
...............Surely this is a step in the right direction to create a more equal society, hopefully in the near future employer won't be able to unlawfully discriminate based on intelligence, skills, ability or qualifications either!


Please, not even n jest.

Years ago I read a short SCiFi story about a future society where all were not only equal but handicapped by the state if they were above the "normal"
So anyone with a high IQ had a blast of white noise to break concentration on a regular basis, athletic types had physical restraints and the like.
Can't remember the full story or the author but that vision of forced equality seems at times to be getting closer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 22:35
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 21:11) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 14:08) *
...............Surely this is a step in the right direction to create a more equal society, hopefully in the near future employer won't be able to unlawfully discriminate based on intelligence, skills, ability or qualifications either!


Please, not even n jest.

Years ago I read a short SCiFi story about a future society where all were not only equal but handicapped by the state if they were above the "normal"
So anyone with a high IQ had a blast of white noise to break concentration on a regular basis, athletic types had physical restraints and the like.
Can't remember the full story or the author but that vision of forced equality seems at times to be getting closer.


Are you de crying our education system per chance. Even in your Si Fi there is the person that decides who needs the white noise etc. so always a place for Eton
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KH_
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 17:38
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 21:11) *
Years ago I read a short SCiFi story about a future society where all were not only equal but handicapped by the state if they were above the "normal"
So anyone with a high IQ had a blast of white noise to break concentration on a regular basis, athletic types had physical restraints and the like.
Can't remember the full story or the author but that vision of forced equality seems at times to be getting closer.


Harrison Bergeron?
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DancingDad
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 18:26
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 17:38) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 21:11) *
Years ago I read a short SCiFi story about a future society where all were not only equal but handicapped by the state if they were above the "normal"
So anyone with a high IQ had a blast of white noise to break concentration on a regular basis, athletic types had physical restraints and the like.
Can't remember the full story or the author but that vision of forced equality seems at times to be getting closer.


Harrison Bergeron?


That's the beasty, thanks
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whjohnson
post Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 17:13
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There is a constant background whine of discontent that has been around as long as we have had language; before that even, given that is driven by one of the most basic of all our instincts – survival. In times of scarcity, those who outcompete the others will prevail where the rest perish. It’s what makes humankind the undisputed success that it is, notwithstanding those who blame man for every bad thing that befalls the home planet. But, goes a certain narrative, why can’t we be equally successful? Why can’t I have what he has?

There is an inaccurate but soothing platitude that all men are created equal. Seriously, if you want to believe this then Go You, I guess. But even if one takes that at face value and assumes that every baby is an equally blank slate, the process of differentiation begins almost immediately. Even if you strip out inherited advantages – money, circumstance, family attitudes, country of origin, etc., the supposed balance begins to tip right from the off. Some will walk, talk, understand, far quicker than others. Some will be overcome by childhood illness or accidents... or suffer trauma at the hands of those who should care from them.

Even if none of those things happened – or if they happened equally – once attaining the age of responsibility, some will work harder, smarter, faster, longer than others and begin to open up a lead. By their mid-twenties most people have set the groundwork for what follows. Of course, some fall by the wayside, but the mindset is pretty much established and it takes a mighty effort to shift it. Some plough all their energy into the next generation, some – selfishly, you might decide – continue to invest in themselves.

Either way, the world roughly splits into the haves and the have-nots and only the boundary is blurred; at what point do you have ‘enough’? At what point do you decide you don’t? And then, whichever camp you sit in, how do you account for it? The ‘winners’ continue to slap each other’s backs and congratulate each other for their hard work (even those who have inherited every penny) while berating the ‘losers’ for their indolence. The ‘losers’ can do no such thing, so construct a narrative of privilege and class from which they are excluded by some unfair process.

Both narratives have a certain basis in actualité, but one side has no desire to redress the balance; they must be compelled to do so. Thus, the class struggle is the attempt by the have-nots to loosen the grip of the haves on the keys to wealth and power. And replace it with what? An egalitarian, ‘equal’ society? Don’t make me laugh. Those who agitate for the left have their eyes on the prize of power for themselves and this manifests every time a socialist administration is ushered in on the tide of votes of the have-nots, hoping for a ‘kinder, gentler’ politics.

Even if you nominally divided fiscal wealth equally – that which you could seize before it was squirreled away – there is still the issue of influence and favour and pretty soon a hierarchy will be established in which it is secretive alliances which convey power, not the open acquisition of material things. When rich people screw up they become poorer people and suffer the ignominy of public ridicule. When nominally equal party apparatchiks screw up they either get given even more power or they disappear.

Maybe you prefer that version of society – conform or be removed – where your success depends not on your individual efforts but on how much you further the aims of the ruling committees; on how closely you resemble everybody else and how uniform your actions, speech and thought. Because, if you want an ‘equal’ society, this is where it it is inevitably headed, with all differentiators removed. But regardless of how far down the communist road you wish to travel, your imagined fair society has to begin with answering one question: How much of what other people have produced do you believe you are entitled to?

This post has been edited by whjohnson: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 19:06
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Fredd
post Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 17:39
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Care to share the source?


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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 18:24
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 17:39) *
Care to share the source?


Care to share the brandy
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Unzippy
post Sun, 28 Jan 2018 - 14:02
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 18:39) *
Care to share the source?



Google is quite the tool...

http://batsby.blogspot.com.au/2018/01/to-h...olitics-of.html
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