PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Rape trial collapses, Huge failings in police disclosure
southpaw82
post Fri, 15 Dec 2017 - 22:25
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,784
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



BBC Link

Absolutely shocking incompetence on the part of the police. You know you’ve gone badly wrong if even the prosecution barrister is criticising you.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 39)
Advertisement
post Fri, 15 Dec 2017 - 22:25
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 17 Dec 2017 - 21:55
Post #21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,977
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Nothing new, Stefan Kisko was prosecuted and convicted and jailed for a long time, yet the Police had evidence of his complete innocence the whole time.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
busman
post Mon, 18 Dec 2017 - 00:53
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 681
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
From: stapleford,nottingham
Member No.: 8,176



One of my brothers was charged with several rapes of his 15 year old daughter,who made the allegations ,after being co-erced by an aunt, because my brother refused to let his daughters 22 year old drug addict boyfriend sleep over at the weekend.
The jury failed to reach a verdict, and the cops pressurised my brothers daughter to go for a re-trial swearing that "We will definitely get a conviction this time"(And yes,these are the exact words of the cop who handled the case).
A re-trial went ahead, and on the second day,my brothers barrister produced a document from the local hospital showing that my brothers daughter had had an examination to prove that she had been raped......However,the result from the medical was that her hymen was still intact, and she was still a virgin.
The judge ordered the jury to return a not guilty verdict, and ordered the defective detective into his chambers after the case.He also told my brother that "You are well within your rights to sue the police and good luck in doing so".
Unfortunately,the solicitor my brother got to help him sue the police farce was as corrupt as the cop, and it all fell apart.However,my brother did succeed in getting compensation from the solicitors practice after filing a complaint against their handling of the case.
There has always been mis carriages of justice, and there always will be.
No wonder some people don't like the cops.
I hope the guy in the newspaper story sues the cops big time.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
KH_
post Mon, 18 Dec 2017 - 16:48
Post #23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 391
Joined: 1 Nov 2013
From: NG1
Member No.: 66,409



QUOTE (busman @ Mon, 18 Dec 2017 - 00:53) *
There has always been mis carriages of justice, and there always will be.
No wonder some people don't like the cops.
I hope the guy in the newspaper story sues the cops big time.


Your wish may well be granted

He will sue police and CPS and said: 'There's been no contact. It's disappointing'
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bama
post Mon, 18 Dec 2017 - 21:35
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,904
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Member No.: 4,323



This pancake has two sides, both equally distasteful.
Would the guy have had the same problem if his name was Smith or Saville ?


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Tue, 19 Dec 2017 - 10:45
Post #25


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,599
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



QUOTE (bama @ Mon, 18 Dec 2017 - 21:35) *
This pancake has two sides, both equally distasteful.
Would the guy have had the same problem if his name was Smith or Saville ?


IMO Saville is part of the issue.
Cases that the police would ignore or CPS not prosecute are now pursued with all efforts.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ocelot
post Tue, 19 Dec 2017 - 19:56
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,821
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Member No.: 1,326



IMHO Alison Saunders is part of the issue.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
buttonpusher
post Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 10:51
Post #27


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,072
Joined: 9 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,066



So they are going to check all current cases to ensure the defence has the full info (as I read it). I wonder if there are many cases where the guy has pleaded innocent, but has been convicted anyway, in similar circumstances.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 14:06
Post #28


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,977
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (buttonpusher @ Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 11:51) *
So they are going to check all current cases to ensure the defence has the full info (as I read it). I wonder if there are many cases where the guy has pleaded innocent, but has been convicted anyway, in similar circumstances.

Stefan Kisko, jailed for 16 years for the murder of Leslie Molseed, the 3 main prosecution witnesses were three little bitches who did it 'for a laugh' and got so dragged in they felt they couldn't then tell the truth, the Police withheld evidence that Kisko couldn't produce any semen, despite matching the blood type of semen found on Molseed's body.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 14:21
Post #29


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 7,176
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



The entire notion that the police can be relied upon to decide impartially what material should be disclosed to the defence is deeply flawed, IMO - regardless of the charge.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 14:59
Post #30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,599
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



I saw on the news a second case has been withdrawn on same, similar lack of disclosure.
Same cop involved .
And Met has started a review of all outstanding cases.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/20...aunches-review/

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 16:39
Post #31


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,074
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 14:59) *
I saw on the news a second case has been withdrawn on same, similar lack of disclosure.
Same cop involved .
And Met has started a review of all outstanding cases.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/20...aunches-review/


I am surprised anyone thinks it strange or uncommon for the police to withhold evidence My view is if the do they should go to prison. Back in the 90's i was charged with a farcical assault.
I'm 6 foot 5 20 stone and at the time not much fat. The bod was bigger than me. He was a drunken trouble maker, caused trouble took a swing and i decked him. I was in my forties him his twenties

I was identified invited to come to the station for interview the next day, when i arrived i was arrested. had a duty solicitor appointed as i was told in no uncertain terms when my interview was over i would be charged.

Told the story got charged and elected a trial First hearing no one from the duty solicitors turns up. so was adjourned. I then got my own solicitor. Who did the job right. Applied for evidence and was supplied with the transcripts of two interviews
mine and his. I had 6 witnesses the police said they had not interviewed any of them the transcript of my interview bore little resemblance to what was said. It was only upon an application for the tape to be played in court that the CPS managed to accept that every amendment to the transcript i put forward should be accepted.

Long and short of it was when my barrister finished laughing he went into court applied for summery dismissal, i was called in and told no case to answer or words to that effect

The police will tell you it is their job to investigate and find out what happened, but all they want is a conviction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 18:31
Post #32


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,784
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 16:39) *
The police will tell you it is their job to investigate and find out what happened, but all they want is a conviction

I try not to laugh when a police officer says "we’re here to find the truth". Funny how every question asked is aimed at gathering evidence to prosecute the interviewee or head off a potential defence. Truth seeking my arse. The police think a suspect did it and will try to prove it.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 23 Dec 2017 - 14:24
Post #33


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,074
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



This guy need to catch the book though

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/polic...ocid=spartanntp
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 08:13
Post #34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,977
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Seems like its not an isolated incidence to say the least!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42795058
Is it poor training, lack of resources or just laziness is the question I think.

Is the growth in the last two years due to worse disclosure or more being found out........


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tartarus
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 14:15
Post #35


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 309
Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Member No.: 76,324



Pressure to secure more successful sexual assault/rape convictions, considering how low the chances are currently of someone being banged up for an offence of that nature (roughly 7% for rape last year, and that was an increase over previous years!).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
buttonpusher
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:29
Post #36


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,072
Joined: 9 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,066



I wonder how many "guiltys" that got through had evidence withheld and could have been innocent?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:49
Post #37


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,784
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (buttonpusher @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:29) *
I wonder how many "guiltys" that got through had evidence withheld and could have been innocent?

The received wisdom is that an innocent person will not plead guilty. However, with inadequate disclosure and a lawyer advising that based on the disclosed evidence a conviction is very likely and the dangling carrot of 1/3 off an already lengthy sentence for an early guilty plea, who knows?


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:52
Post #38


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 7,176
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (buttonpusher @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:29) *
I wonder how many "guiltys" that got through had evidence withheld and could have been innocent?

None, nothing to worry about there, no siree - the DPP says so.

<cough> Bu****it <cough>

Others seem to think similarly.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 10:23
Post #39


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,977
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Stefan Kiszko spent 16 years in jail after the Police failed to disclose evidence of his innocence, the Lesley Molseed case is often referred to as the single murder with two victims, its not new. And it's clear it's sent innocent people to jail, Alison Sanders is a blithering idiot (personal opinion).

At least we now understand why Kiszko's MP wouldn't want to get involved in helping someone convicted of the sexual assault of an 11 year old, that MP was Cyril Smith.

A good article here, you have to register (free) to read it but worthwhile in my opinion.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/pro...y-are-l957bw7nv

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 - 06:53


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Fri, 26 Jan 2018 - 22:05
Post #40


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 7,176
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



Hopefully the continuing public stream of disclosure failures will at some point result in a system less ludicrous than relying on the prosecution to play nice with the defence, in an adversarial system. Scant consolation to the people now being wrongly prosecuted, and convicted, though.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Monday, 19th November 2018 - 20:48
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.