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Barnet council PCN
M3lover
post Fri, 17 Mar 2023 - 13:39
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Hi All!

I’m currently hiring a vehicle and I’ve received a PCN whist in my possession.

I was contacted by the hire company on 09/02/23 via email to say they will be transferring liability to me.

I have now received the PCN (dated 14/03/23) but it is addressed to RAC Limited but at my address.

I was under the understanding that when a PCN is sent it should also have a copy of the hire agreement attached, is that correct?

Either way how should I go about dealing with this?



Thanks in advance.
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post Fri, 17 Mar 2023 - 13:39
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stamfordman
post Fri, 17 Mar 2023 - 14:40
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There has obviously been a mistake in the transfer as I presume you are not a Mr RAC Limited.

I think this may mean the procedure has failed in your favour but let's see what others say.

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cp8759
post Fri, 17 Mar 2023 - 21:12
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Give us the PCN number and number plate please, as it's always worth looking at the contravention.

That being said, you're not the RAC so the PCN has not been served on you.


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M3lover
post Fri, 17 Mar 2023 - 21:45
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LR22RLV
AG42486167
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cp8759
post Fri, 17 Mar 2023 - 22:58
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I would wait for the very end of the 28 day period, and then email parking.clientteam@barnet.gov.uk and Barnet@nsl.co.uk as follows:
Dear London Borough of Barnet,

I am in receipt of the attached PCN which has been delivered to my address, however this is not a valid address for RAC Limited as that company does not trade from my address, nor has RAC Limited ever traded from my address. If you seek to serve documents on RAC Limited, in the first instance I might suggest you conduct a search of Companies House. Any further correspondence addressed to RAC Limited sent to my address will be returned to you unopened.

Yours faithfully,
The reason for waiting for the end of the 28 day period is that if they then try playing silly buggers by serving a new PCN on you, that PCN will inevitably be out of time.


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M3lover
post Sun, 26 Mar 2023 - 12:12
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Any other thoughts that this is the right course of action !!?

Many thanks CP8759 👍
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hcandersen
post Sun, 26 Mar 2023 - 14:32
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Date of service of PCN - 16 March.
End of 28-day period - 12 April.
End of discount period - tomorrow, 27th.

I was under the understanding that when a PCN is sent it should also have a copy of the hire agreement attached, is that correct?

You have shown us a PCN in respect of the incident to which you refer.

On the face of it, the PCN is addressed incorrectly because RAC was not the hirer and your name as hirer doesn't appear in the address block.
Presumably the vehicle hire company used these grounds for their PCN:

(d)that the recipient is a vehicle-hire firm and—

(i)the vehicle in question was at the material time hired from that firm under a vehicle hiring agreement; and

(ii)the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability acknowledging his liability in respect of any penalty charge notice issued in respect of the vehicle during the currency of the hiring agreement.

In which case this applies:

(8)Where the ground that is accepted is that mentioned in sub-paragraph (4)(d) above, the person hiring the vehicle shall be deemed to be its owner for the purposes of this Act.

On the face of it a mistake has been made, but by whom is the question?
1. You are the hirer and gave the vehicle hire firm incorrect details. Unlikely since they would have required you to produce your driving licence which carries your name and address;
2. A processing error by one or both of the hire company and council.

Your grounds are purely procedural and I can't see any reason to go beyond what cp has drafted.

Given the glaring nature of the error, I couldn't see the authority trying to find out what went wrong - other than after they've cancelled this PCN.

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M3lover
post Sun, 26 Mar 2023 - 14:45
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Many thanks…
One question, should I sign the above drafted letter with my full name at the end?
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cp8759
post Tue, 28 Mar 2023 - 20:33
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QUOTE (M3lover @ Sun, 26 Mar 2023 - 15:45) *
Many thanks…
One question, should I sign the above drafted letter with my full name at the end?

Yes of course.


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M3lover
post Fri, 31 Mar 2023 - 09:33
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Thanks
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M3lover
post Fri, 5 May 2023 - 16:16
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Well, I have had a response from the council.
Sounds like a scripted response and never mentions the fact that a mistake was made.

Thoughts on how to proceed?





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Mr Mustard
post Fri, 5 May 2023 - 16:19
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The dates of hire stated by the council go backwards and don't cover the date of the alleged contravention.

I'm always happy to face Barnet at the tribunal so if you want me to act for you please send copies of everything, unredacted, by email to mrmustard@zoho.com


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PeterStone
post Fri, 5 May 2023 - 22:18
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I checked the TMO map, for the junction of those two roads, and it doesn't show any signs. The Google Street View shows blank signs and the spycams, so possibly days or weeks before the TMO went live? Strange however. Maybe there is a TMO issue here if not in the Barnet website?
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Mr Mustard
post Sat, 6 May 2023 - 07:04
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On line map only for parking I think.


--------------------
All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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hcandersen
post Sat, 6 May 2023 - 07:33
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For info, a traffic order is not required to make reference to traffic signs either diagrammatically or in writing, neither should it make reference to enforcement.

The signs obligation arises under LATOR via RTRA.
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MMV Redux
post Sat, 6 May 2023 - 07:56
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Notice of the restriction----

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3760892

Just concentrate on the addressing mistake, compounded by a new name (LCH Ltd) and the complete failure to consider that issue. It will give an adjudicator a laugh if it gets that far.

Someone has used the American way in providing dates.

You are in safe hands with Mr. M

Mick

This post has been edited by MMV Redux: Sat, 6 May 2023 - 07:58
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Mr Mustard
post Sun, 7 May 2023 - 14:14
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I have started an Appeal as the names on the PCN and Notice of Appeal form don't match, a schoolboy error.


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Mr Mustard
post Wed, 17 May 2023 - 11:21
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90 pages evidence pack just received, it doesn't properly tackle the liability question.

It will be decided on 8 June at an in person hearing (I have two already that day - I had two last week, took 10 minutes in total to win both).


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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M3lover
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 14:33
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UPDATE:

A big Thankyou for all the advice given

And a big shout out to Mr Mustard.
Who appealed on my behalf to the adjudicators and got the case thrown out!!!!

Top man!!
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Mr Mustard
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 14:36
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The register will be updated at about 1am. Rental agreements didn't stand up to scrutiny as covering the contravention date. Easy win after a lot of hard work.

Tribunal 223024634A

This post has been edited by Mr Mustard: Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 15:10


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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