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Unloading Claim Rejected
h3lp
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 07:24
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Hi All,

One of our vans got ticketed whilst unloading on non-restricted double yellow lines.

We appealed with supporting evidence but this got rejected because the van was near a junction.

Can anyone see anything incorrect about the council's letter before we pay?

Cheers.

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post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 07:24
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Redivi
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 07:55
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Post up all the documents, every page and a Streetview location
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stamfordman
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:07
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Pretty certain this is nonsense as we've seen with recent cases of Crawley going after BB holders in this way. Obstruction can be pursued by police but not by council under the yellow line parking order. If they want to ban loading there then they can be they haven't, presumably.

As per above post PCN, all your challenge and their rejection, council pics, and a google street view.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:07
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h3lp
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:32
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Cheers guys,

I haven't got the copy of my first appeal to the council, but it basically stated that i was unloading and that there were no unloading restrictions in force. I also provided a job sheet supporting the unloading.

Here is the ticket, council picture and GSV :







https://www.instantstreetview.com/@50.37209....46h,-23.49p,1z

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stamfordman
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:46
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Observation time was 5 mins which further suggests that the corner location is nonsense - did driver see the CEO?

Sounds to me like you left van to attend to leak? Was van moved after loading? They could have rejected owing to no loading going on but may well have shot themselves in the foot with the obstruction.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:46
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 09:05
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What a crock of bull. The exemption applies end off. If you are guilty of an offence of causing an obstruction it is a police matter it does not nullify any exemption

Please post all the docs on an external hosting site such as imgur to make them easier to read. I cannot see you losing this and can see you getting costs awarded if the appeal is well drafted


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stamfordman
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 09:13
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OP has put on external PMB - just click on them.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 09:19
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 28 May 2019 - 10:13) *
OP has put on external PMB - just click on them.


Ok but I would like to see ALL of the rejection, redacted of only personal detail


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h3lp
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 09:43
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No problem, here we go thank you for your help



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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 10:03
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Send this now To Mr Simpson


Dear Mr Simpson

reference PCN number xxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated the 24th of May 2019 rejecting my challenge. You state that as I was unloading near to a junction that the TMA 2004 and the TSRGD 2016 disallows the exemption afforded to parking on a double yellow line for the purposes of loading/unloading.


In order that I may consider my position, please inform me of the relevant provision in both sets of regulations that sets out this revocation of the exemption in such circumstances.



Regards


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h3lp
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 10:30
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Thank you so much!

Email sent!
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hcandersen
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 11:14
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Have you actually sent it?

If not, then wait.
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h3lp
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 11:20
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yeh i emailed it straight away.

why whats up?
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hcandersen
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 11:58
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A matter of preference.

I would have included..

..your letter dated *** in which you acknowledge that I was engaged in loading etc. which is an exemption as regards the prevailing traffic order but that you have not accepted my representations for one or more of the following reasons:

1. The TMA and TSRGD 2016 disapply the exemption when a vehicle is parked 'on or near a pedestrian crossing or junction'
2. 'The vehicle is not causing an obstruction....

..and so on..

Draw out and shine the spotlight on their stupidity. It's all grist to the adjudicator's mill which would grind Mr Simpson. They'd be lucky to escape without an award of costs against them, in fact if you play this right and they're stupid enough to continue with a NTO/NOR I would virtually guarantee an award their response and reasoning is SOOOO bad. But you have to play them, a bit like anglng except here you'd be angling for costs smile.gif

Too late now, but we could include in any formal reps.

Surely more than one the council pic!







This post has been edited by hcandersen: Tue, 28 May 2019 - 12:04
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h3lp
post Tue, 28 May 2019 - 12:27
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OK thank you for your additional insight

i'll update if i need to reload the appeal gun!
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h3lp
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 13:14
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Hi All,

The council have written and rejected the appeal.

I've linked their response - any help appreciated!

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SurreyNorthern
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 14:30
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Long time lurker, but I'm pretty sure that claiming they are 'not willing to consider further challenges at this stage' is a Procedural Impropriety, as they should always consider further reps I thought.

Wait for further feedback, just in case I am wrong.....
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 18:07
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You need to show us all of all the documents. When you get the NTO post that and one of us will help you write your representation


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DancingDad
post Sat, 8 Jun 2019 - 09:41
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Personally I would write back again.

Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ???? Your Letter dated ????
Thanks for the further information but I am still struggling on ascertaining what cancels the general loading exemption on yellow lines relative to position near a junction.
I need full information so I may consider further options.
You kindly referred me to Traffic Management Act 2004, Schedule 7, Item 4(2)(a) and 4(2)(b) which I reproduce in full.
"(2)The offences are—
(a)an offence under section 64(3) of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 (c. 57) of causing a vehicle to stop on part of a road appointed, or deemed to have been appointed, as a hackney carriage stand;
(b)an offence under section 5, 11, 16(1) or 16C of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27) (contravention of certain traffic orders) of contravening a prohibition or restriction on waiting, or loading or unloading, of vehicles;"


Could you explain what Hackney Carriage Stand was present or signed as you seem to be reliant on this?
Could you point out within Schedule 7(4)(2)(b) where distance from a corner is specified or the relevant legislation or Order which enables this section to be used?
Could you also specify which signs were present to show that the standard loading exemption was not allowed?
Many thanks for your continued efforts with this, I am sure you appreciate the need to be exact and to apply the correct legislation.
Yours....
Hugs and Kisses.


Up to you but being as they cite some legislation, I would call them on it now.
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h3lp
post Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 08:08
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Thank you! I love this site smile.gif

Will report back
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