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Bradford PCN
crot4lus
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 17:04
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Hi guys, thanks in advance for any advice.

Ok so a bit of background, in March last year my mum and her partner were shopping in Bradford - my mum is registered disabled and therefore they parked on double yellows with blue badge clearly displayed - unfortunately they didn't pick up on the fact it was a no loading/unloading zone and therefore shouldn't have parked there.

When they returned to the car there was a ticket on the windscreen for 12:36, contravention: 02 Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.

They accepted the fine, paid up the £35 and moved on with their lives. A month after this they moved out of the property they were in when the incident happened.

They've recently been handed a letter from the tenant of their old address from Jacob's enforcement claiming they owe around £500 for an unpaid parking fine, I've done some digging and can see this is a second fine they received at 11:53, on the same day (43 minutes earlier) for the same Contravention with the car in the exact same place (this is evidenced by the images attached). However, only 1 ticket was present when they returned to the car.

I've now looked up the operational guidance given to parking enforcement attendants, this clearly states:

"8.46 If two or more PCNs are issued within 24 hours for the same contravention,
that is, to a vehicle that has not been moved, it is current practice to cancel
the second PCN. It may be sensible to review both PCNs and cancel the one
with the least robust evidence. For instance, if the digital photograph for one
was taken in the daytime and the other at night, the one taken in the light may
well be clearer. If one PCN is at the higher rate and the other at the lower
rate, the lower rate PCN should normally be considered first for cancellation."

We're now a little bit concerned about next steps, the car they were using at the time has been sold so no longer present at the address. This realistically is Bradford Councils mistake and they should deal with it but my mum is now worried about the fact she has "bailiffs" (are they bailiffs?) chasing her for money - they did already agree to a £50 repayment plan but have put that on hold and explained to Jacob's they wish to challenge the fine as it clearly shouldn't have been applied.

Any advice we can be given would be awesome!

Regards
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post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 17:04
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DJ Lexy
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 17:26
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Yes, the usual thing to do is to appeal them under a 'continuous contravention'. This usually results in all but one of the PCNs being cancelled (usually the oldest one).

The problem is that you're well beyond the timeframe for appealing and you've got bailiffs at the door.

You need to file an out-of-time declaration with the TEC. There is a box on the form for you to supply a reason for filing out-of-time. This box is NOT for appealing the original PCN. It's for telling them why you're filing an out-of-time statement, i.e. why you didn't file a statement when they sent you an Order for Recovery.

Tell them you moved shortly after the PCN was issued and weren't aware of the original PCN because you didn't receive any paperwork. Tell them the date the PCN was issued, the date you moved home, and the date you updated the V5C certificate to your new address. If you haven't updated the V5C, you might be in trouble.

If all goes well, the statement will be accepted, the bailiffs will be called off, and the PCN will be reset to the beginning of the process. At this point, you appeal to the council saying it's a continuous contravention as there was another PCN issues in the same location 40 minutes before, and you supply the number of the PCN you have already paid.
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crot4lus
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 18:57
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Hi, thanks for the response!

I've passed the info on, as it stands she's currently struggling to recall / find out exact dates of when they moved and if they ever notified the DVLA of an address change for the car as they sold it very shortly after moving. Hopefully she can find out the info needed and deal with it but thanks for your advice anyway, very much appreciated.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 10 Jan 2018 - 20:16
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It is a recoverable situation but you need do some work.

The process is that you apply to the TEC for permission to file a statutory declaration out of time And a statutory declaration that you did not receive the notice to owner.

The problem is that councils are allowed to object to the out of time application, and invariably do. The next stage is for the application to be put before a judge, Cost £100 for a hearing on the papers or £255 of an appearance. These fees are not recoverable.

Once the application is made the bailiffs are called of, and once the statutory declaration is accepted then the PCN will revert to notice to owner stage so your minimum saving would be about 250ish.

We have people who can help you file the docs so as to give you the best chance of success at the early stage so it could well be the full £500ish.

But they will need information. if you don't have it phone the council and get it.

Date and time and proof of payment of PCN one (bank or card statement. You don't have to show it here just confirm you have it)

Date and time of unpaid PCN

Date you changed address

Date you changed updated V5C or date you sold car and proof.


Appealing the PCN if all that you have told us is correct is easy, but you are at the moment stuck in a legal process that only you can get out of either by doing as we advise or paying what the bailiffs want



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crot4lus
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 12:42
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Thanks very much.

I've been told they've spoken to somebody today who has asked to see copies of both PCNs / evidence the second one was paid and the images that show the vehicle didn't move - they've been told if they send the evidence to them by next Wednesday the situation can easily be resolved. I'm trying to find out more information about who it is they have spoken to and what exactly has been said as it all sounds a bit dubious.

I'll provide some updates as soon as I get to know anything!
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crot4lus
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 21:05
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Just to let you all know, before I put this on here I'd already sent an email to Bradford Council on behalf of my mums partner explaining the situation and providing the evidence in hope they might cancel it and we have just had a response saying just that. Bradford Council have admitted to their mistake, and they have contacted Jacobs directly to call off the enforcement and closed the case.

Once again thanks for all your advice, we had started preparing our case on your advice but it appears we needn't do that now. My mums partner is going to contact Jacobs directly tomorrow to retrieve the £50 and ensure it is all marked as closed.
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DancingDad
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 21:40
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And sometimes councils do the right thing.
Excellent as well as a pleasant surprise.

If the bailiffs are sticky over returning the 50 quid, don't forget that they work as agents for the council.
So get the council and if needs be local councillor involved.
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crot4lus
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:47
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Great thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks again!!
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