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Car Prang, car prang insurance dubious claim
tomtomtom
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 15:52
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My wife confessed to me today that she had been in prang last Thursday, and now our insurance company have emailed saying: “We’ve been told that your vehicle was involved in an incident on 13 December 2018. At the moment we have the following information about the incident: Location Description: xxxxx. Your Vehicle: xxxx. We have tried to call you to clarify these allegations but we have been unable to reach you. We need you to call us on xxxxx. It is important that we speak to you urgently. If we don’t hear from you within the next 5 days and the information provided to us by the third party suggests the involvement of your vehicle, we will accept responsibility for the incident and settle any third party claim.”

She says they both stopped and checked their cars. His door was caved in but she had no damaged, and since he admitted it was his fault, she went on her way. Whilst she is sticking to her story, I have the tiniest nagging doubt, because we have been arguing a lot over our lack of money and I wonder if she’s defending from the huge cash impact of going from 20 years no claims bonus to zero. I therefore wonder if it was more 50-50, or indeed her fault completely, and she just drove off hoping he wouldn’t have time to take our registration number.

Questions:
(1) If we contact the insurance company to say ‘yes, she was involved, but it was the other guy’s fault’, what happens next – do they just decide it’s his word against hers and leave it at that, or is there a massive instigation?

(2) Suppose there is cctv that goes in his favour, does that mean she will be fined by the courts if her story is wildly different?

(3) If the case goes in his favour, which is cheapest/best method of paying for his damage: taking out a loan or doing it through the insurance and losing your no claims (if indeed you are allowed to choose?)

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post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 15:52
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bearclaw
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 15:56
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Were full details exchanged at the scene? if they were then the police will probably be vastly disinterested at this point.

IS there any damage at all on your car? It's rare for an accident to leave no sign at all even small scuff marks will be there although difficult to see.

Any pictures of the other cars damage?

Also I'm not sure that this is the right section for it so you might get it moved unexpectedly..

This post has been edited by bearclaw: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 15:57
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The Rookie
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 16:44
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You don’t lose all your no claims for one incident, but a claim will impact your premiums.


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cp8759
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 17:14
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QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 15:52) *
Questions:
(1) If we contact the insurance company to say ‘yes, she was involved, but it was the other guy’s fault’, what happens next – do they just decide it’s his word against hers and leave it at that, or is there a massive instigation?

It seems unlikely the insurance company would want to hold a massive investigation for the amounts involved, if it's a damage only RTC they will probably just seek a detailed account of events from both parties and send someone to go and look at the vehicles, but they're not going to pay for a forensic collision investigator to make a 3D simulation of the accident if that's what you were thinking.

QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 15:52) *
(2) Suppose there is cctv that goes in his favour, does that mean she will be fined by the courts if her story is wildly different?

Only if it turns out she's involved in some sort of deliberate insurance scam, like crash for cash or something of that nature. If she gives a witness statement that she must have known to be materially false, she could be fined for contempt of court, but the evidential bar is very high so a simple disagreement as to who did or didn't give way or whatever is not going to result in any further action.

QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 15:52) *
(3) If the case goes in his favour, which is cheapest/best method of paying for his damage: taking out a loan or doing it through the insurance and losing your no claims (if indeed you are allowed to choose?)

You don't have any choice, if the guy is making an insurance claim against your policy, you cannot stop the insurance company from paying out. I suppose you could ask him if he's willing to drop the insurance claim in exchange for a cash settlement, but it's then his choice, not yours. And the insurance company would still likely consider it an "at fault" claim because it's not as if they've recovered the cost from a third party.


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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 23:30
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Surely the solution is very simple. Your wife tells the insurance company her a count of what happened. It is not your job to fact check her.

The insurance company then assesses both sides of the story. Lots of people lie or enhance the truth on insurance claims and I doubt it will be the first or last time your insurance company will have got differing accounts of the same story.

The only thing to bear in mind is that when both sides dispute the story increasingly insurance companies seem to settle 50/50 affecting both of your insurance. So if she is at fault she might screw over both parties.
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mickR
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 23:39
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Why not proceed in line with your wife's story and let her tell your insurance company exactly that.
As 3rd party already reported it you cant really lose anything

NML beat me to it lol

This post has been edited by mickR: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 23:40
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Churchmouse
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 09:42
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If it helps soften the blow, her insurance company may increase her premiums next year anyway, even for a non-fault accident, as simply being involved in a non-fault accident that involves no payment by her insurance company also changes her risk profile. So it's win-win...for the insurance company!

--Churchmouse

This post has been edited by Churchmouse: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 09:42
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cp8759
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 11:25
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 09:42) *
If it helps soften the blow, her insurance company may increase her premiums next year anyway, even for a non-fault accident, as simply being involved in a non-fault accident that involves no payment by her insurance company also changes her risk profile. So it's win-win...for the insurance company!

I'm not sure it is, the increase in premiums reflects the likelihood of future payouts. In any case you should shop around for insurance each year so they'll only "win" if they're charging the lowest premium for those potential future claims.


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Churchmouse
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 17:39
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 11:25) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 09:42) *
If it helps soften the blow, her insurance company may increase her premiums next year anyway, even for a non-fault accident, as simply being involved in a non-fault accident that involves no payment by her insurance company also changes her risk profile. So it's win-win...for the insurance company!

I'm not sure it is, the increase in premiums reflects the likelihood of future payouts. In any case you should shop around for insurance each year so they'll only "win" if they're charging the lowest premium for those potential future claims.

You're right. I forgot that insurance companies only raise premiums to break even on expected future losses, not, you know, just because the can get away with it. Interestingly, as you've pointed out, other insurance companies selflessly ignore the same increased likelihood of future payouts, evidently to their own financial detriment, in order to write new policies. It's a funny 'ol business, insurance. tongue.gif

--Churchmouse
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Redivi
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 17:40
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 11:25) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 09:42) *
If it helps soften the blow, her insurance company may increase her premiums next year anyway, even for a non-fault accident, as simply being involved in a non-fault accident that involves no payment by her insurance company also changes her risk profile. So it's win-win...for the insurance company!

I'm not sure it is, the increase in premiums reflects the likelihood of future payouts. In any case you should shop around for insurance each year so they'll only "win" if they're charging the lowest premium for those potential future claims.

My daughter's premium increased because her car was struck from behind while stopped at a zebra crossing
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cp8759
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 18:54
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 17:40) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 11:25) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 09:42) *
If it helps soften the blow, her insurance company may increase her premiums next year anyway, even for a non-fault accident, as simply being involved in a non-fault accident that involves no payment by her insurance company also changes her risk profile. So it's win-win...for the insurance company!

I'm not sure it is, the increase in premiums reflects the likelihood of future payouts. In any case you should shop around for insurance each year so they'll only "win" if they're charging the lowest premium for those potential future claims.

My daughter's premium increased because her car was struck from behind while stopped at a zebra crossing

Maybe she drives on roads, or at times of the day, when there's lots of idiots about.


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tomtomtom
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 21:39
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Thanks everyone for responding.

"Were full details exchanged at the scene? if they were then the police will probably be vastly disinterested at this point."

No - he must have 'sneaked' her details as she drove off. (This happened to me about ten years ago. Someone hit my car, but only his was damaged so we agreed to go our separate ways. The next thing I knew the police sent me a letter saying he had complained that I drove off and that it was my fault. Obviously he had this chicanery in mind in order to get compensation - and i wonder if the other driver has done the same with my mrs. I wrote and told them what really happened, and they sent a letter saying they would drop it).

"IS there any damage at all on your car?" & "send someone to go and look at the vehicles"

His driver door was damaged but our car was no different. The problem is, is that ours is 15 years old and has bumps and scrapes all over it, the more recent of which can easily be misconstrued as being part of this coming together.

"In any case you should shop around for insurance each year"

I do this each year. Question: If they decide it is half a dozen of one and six of the other, if I go to another company next year will i have to tell them that I have zero no claims?

"The only thing to bear in mind is that when both sides dispute the story increasingly insurance companies seem to settle 50/50 affecting both of your insurance. So if she is at fault she might screw over both parties."

Are you saying that if it seems it is going to be 50-50, it is less costly for her to plead guilty? (The alternative is to say you weren't involved in the accident, only his word for it - not that I'm suggesting we will do that).
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 23:04
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Your insurance company will increase your premium even if not at fault, and will raise it further depending on the level of fault. My point was more that if she knows she is at fault, disputing it will probably mean it will impact on her and the innocent third party.

As others have said you will not lose all your no claims if there is a claim, but you will need to declare the claim if getting quotes from other companies when you need to renew.

As has been alluded to above even if your wife is found not to be at fault they will increase your insurance premium. That is because insurance is a numbers game and insurers have data that shows you are x.x% more likely to make a claim if you have a not fault claim. The sensible thing to do is to agree a payment from the other insurer to civer expected increases over the next five years.

As for "chicanery" none of us were there but if his driver's door had significant damage then personally I would insist on swapping details and photos of damage and the scene regardless of alleged fault. Otherwise it puts you on the back foot. Live and learn.
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tomtomtom
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 06:26
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Thanks, notmeatloaf. I have another question which has arisen only from curiosity. They want an answer in five days or will pay out. What would happen if someone had a crash which was not their fault but for a legitimate reason could not respond for let's say a month. If they have paid out is that the end of it, or can you successfully argue your case?
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The Slithy Tove
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 09:40
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QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 21:39) *
if I go to another company next year will i have to tell them that I have zero no claims?

When you get the renewal paperwork from the current insurance company, it'll say there how many years' No Claims you have. It won't be 20 any more, but will be greater than zero. Whatever figure they give is what you need to use in getting quotes from other companies, as well as declaring the claim. The renewal should also list any claims, as well as saying if they are Fault or No Fault claims.
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tomtomtom
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 10:13
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 09:40) *
QUOTE (tomtomtom @ Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 21:39) *
if I go to another company next year will i have to tell them that I have zero no claims?

When you get the renewal paperwork from the current insurance company, it'll say there how many years' No Claims you have. It won't be 20 any more, but will be greater than zero. Whatever figure they give is what you need to use in getting quotes from other companies, as well as declaring the claim. The renewal should also list any claims, as well as saying if they are Fault or No Fault claims.


Ah right, thanks.
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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 15:08
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The five days is more than likely code for "get back to us quickly". I'm sure they wouldn't pay on day six but it means if you didn't respond for two months and claimed it was as soon as possible they could more clearly say get lost.

You will also likely find your policy requires you to tell them of "any incident that could lead to a claim" or similar wording. A collision your wife was aware of would obviously count within this - as you have found agreeing not to claim at the scene can quickly change when the motorist gets the bill for the repair.

Of course many people take the more pragmatic route of settling low value claims themselves, however, increasingly with modern cars minor knocks can cost a lot.

I remember back in the day a van ran into the side of me on the M1. I was able to pull the wheel arch back into place enough to get home, and knew it wouldn't be an hour's work or so to finish at home. He had enough scrapes on his van anyway. We both shook hands and went on our merry way without needing a claim management firm.
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KH_
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 16:54
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A very long time ago a car tapped me very gently on the rear bumper, we both had a look, agreed no damage and went on our way.
10 minutes down the road my exhaust fell off.

Obviously there's no proof the tap was the cause but ALWAYS exchange details is my advice smile.gif
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mickR
post Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 01:14
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 18:54) *
Maybe she drives on roads, or at times of the day, when there's lots of idiots about.


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif as if
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tomtomtom
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 11:12
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Regarding this same incident, today we received a letter from the police saying the wife is alleged to have committed the following: Driving without due care and attention, Failing to stop, and failing to report a collision.
Questions:
1) I've read somewhere that they should have sent this with 14 days of the prang, is this true?
2) If this goes to court can you ask them to change the given date if it coincides with a holiday you have already paid for?
3) What sort of points/action will be given/taken if she is found guilty of driving without due care and attention? (or indeed the other two)
Thanks in advance.
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