File of cases to assist arguments, listed under various headings |
File of cases to assist arguments, listed under various headings |
Wed, 7 May 2014 - 23:01
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
I am offering this list of cases to help people find cases quickly in order to support their arguments. It also saves me time in cross-referring to my other browser!
http://www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/ Please feel free to add. If you do so, please indicate at the start of your post the type of case your chosen decision(s) e.g. legitimate expectation. Charge Certificate: premature issue 2130230240 and 2050339777. 213021691A. 213040742A 2140034850 2130622819 2140065151 2130296792, 2140068375. Evidence not served in time 2110144328, 2130131442, 2120451094, 2130259672. Will/may cases 2110072817, 2100649871, 2110415753, 2120021652, 2130049862, 2120448511, 212058885A, 2130236316, 2130516990, 2140068320, 2140026692, 2140006797, 2140046893, 2110029250 Legitimate expectation 2120130716, 2120134353 , 2110055104,. 2130190430, 2120088937, 2130288681, 213031735A Mandatory info missing from Reg. 10 PCN The PCN does not contain mandatory information re viewing the evidence. Case Nos.: 2120293222, 2130089798, 2130149029, 2130034162, 2130397290, 2130011644, 2130430807, 2140026692, 2140006797, 2140068320. 213009616A, 2120473279 Regulation 3(4) opening statement and 3(5) and (6) in their entirety. The adjudicator in the first case cites the legislation in her decision. Representations treated as requests 2120488345, 2100587978, 2120408958, 2110494261. Multiple choice decision: Code 12 2120562288 Failure to consider http://davidmarq.com/uploaderv6_1/files/7/...ly%2520case.pdf http://davidmarq.com/uploaderv6_1/files/7/...0discretion.pdf http://davidmarq.com/uploaderv6_1/files/7/...520decision.pdf http://davidmarq.com/uploaderv6_1/files/7/...520decision.pdf http://davidmarq.com/uploaderv6_1/files/7/...520decision.pdf Fettered discretion: I am unable to cancel 2130316200, 2130521902, 2130497615. This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Mon, 12 May 2014 - 20:47 -------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Wed, 7 May 2014 - 23:01
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Advertise here! |
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Thu, 8 May 2014 - 08:10
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#2
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Super stuff. Saves a lot of time consuming searches.
Don't we need a moderator or systems guy to pin this to the top of the forum as an "Important Topic" as they have done with the Read this First section? Mick |
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Thu, 8 May 2014 - 08:57
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 629 Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Member No.: 29,449 |
sending correspondence to address other than that given
2140070027 2140008894 2130464026 failure to properly consider representations 2140086060 wrong offence on pcn 2140162657 postal pcn claimed not to have been received, i.e. rebuttal of presumed service (maybe because recipient is a solicitor??) 2140155822 This post has been edited by 2cupsofcoffee: Thu, 8 May 2014 - 10:19 |
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Thu, 8 May 2014 - 09:33
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,032 Joined: 5 Mar 2011 Member No.: 44,816 |
PATAS Key Cases
http://keycases.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/ TPT Example Cases http://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/s...?documentID=132 The Appellant claims the Penalty Charge Notice was not handed to the driver. http://www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/StatReg/ 2110488859 2110284167 2110249100 2110577904 2110475267 2110655076 2110507181 2110492233 2120052237 2110434033 2110542717 2120501319 2110564877 2120406409 2120399711 2110367617 2110214398 2110411300 2110496562 2110409706 2110579375 2110334888 2110494465 2110287609 2110287278 2110507975 2110430495 2110507104 2120524427 2110304683 2120564727 211040591A 2110282004 |
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Thu, 8 May 2014 - 10:13
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,931 Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Member No.: 4,323 |
make it a FAQ
-------------------- Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.
Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader. |
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Thu, 8 May 2014 - 10:18
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 12 Dec 2013 From: Berkshire Member No.: 67,343 |
Very good reference, thanks.
Is there a reason we can't use hyperlinks to the cases on these forums, e.g. http :// www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/StatReg/case.aspx?caseref=xxxxxxxxxx ? This post has been edited by jemann: Thu, 8 May 2014 - 10:20 |
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Thu, 8 May 2014 - 10:25
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
Very good reference, thanks. Is there a reason we can't use hyperlinks to the cases on these forums, e.g. http :// www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/StatReg/case.aspx?caseref=xxxxxxxxxx ? I always separate the case from the link which works for me. Great and informative posts so far BTW. This forum has to be the best! This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Thu, 8 May 2014 - 10:28 -------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Thu, 8 May 2014 - 10:49
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,931 Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Member No.: 4,323 |
Very good reference, thanks. Is there a reason we can't use hyperlinks to the cases on these forums, e.g. http :// www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/StatReg/case.aspx?caseref=xxxxxxxxxx ? I always separate the case from the link which works for me. Great and informative posts so far BTW. This forum has to be the best! its easy to put the link under descriptive text as in this FAQ CODE [url="http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autocom=ibwiki&cmd=article&id=102"] as in this FAQ[/url]
This post has been edited by bama: Thu, 8 May 2014 - 10:50 -------------------- Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.
Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader. |
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Thu, 8 May 2014 - 12:40
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#9
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Hippo you are the owner of this thread so why don't you contact Fredd to see what's best.
Two issues--- One ---what would you call it? Case Law? Key Cases? FAQ? Second -- posting access? On the speeding side of the house case law was strictly moderated with the poster having to satisfy a mod before it was published. Mick |
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Thu, 8 May 2014 - 12:43
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
No time at the moment. Have to go to a place!
This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Sun, 11 May 2014 - 21:10 -------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Sun, 11 May 2014 - 18:37
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 629 Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Member No.: 29,449 |
evidence not served in time
213058625A multiple choice offence (bay for special class of vehicle) 2130542108 Notice to Owner failing to describe in general terms or at all the form and manner in which an appeal to the adjudicator may be made. The notice states instead "We will tell you how to do this when we write to you". 2130536590 213008458A failure of adhesive on parking ticket on a warm day 2130469449 This post has been edited by 2cupsofcoffee: Mon, 12 May 2014 - 17:08 |
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Mon, 12 May 2014 - 17:54
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
Mandatory info missing from Reg. 10 PCN
A tough one, but cracked: 2140174849. http://www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/ And they have just changed the wording. Dear Council: SEA OWE PEA WHY AND PEA EH S TEA EE. Seemples. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Suricates,_Namibia-2.jpg This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Mon, 12 May 2014 - 20:08 -------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Tue, 13 May 2014 - 10:27
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,031 Joined: 27 May 2008 Member No.: 19,872 |
I am looking to download all PATAS cases in order to make my own searches for example one particular box junction. I am told this is done in Mozilla (that I use) but can not fathom how to do it.
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Tue, 13 May 2014 - 10:46
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 59 Joined: 10 May 2014 Member No.: 70,531 |
Mandatory info missing from Reg. 10 PCN A tough one, but cracked: 2140174849. http://www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/ And they have just changed the wording. Dear Council: SEA OWE PEA WHY AND PEA EH S TEA EE. Seemples. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Suricates,_Namibia-2.jpg Hippo!! He La Re us!!! |
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Tue, 13 May 2014 - 16:56
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,031 Joined: 27 May 2008 Member No.: 19,872 |
Some old notes i have
due to vehicles stopping after the vehicle had entered the box 2080009884 2110192014 Failed to reject one of the grounds within representation. 211000654A/2110217738 At least witness statement approved device 2110344156 Regulation 5(2) duty consider the representations, no mistake 2110342412 accurate reflection of the location 2110379820 legally removed could not refund the parking fine or the removal fee, wrong! 2110717548 Mare Street car park the scout centre 2120268305 lowered to meet the level of the carriageway 2120227895 nominate a correspondence address if it is then ignored 211055831A TfL 'And' not an 'or' And more. 2130539191:incumbent Authority clear Notice of Rejection representations considered 2130516833:entitled stop momentarily another vehicle vacates space 213049855A:cannot expect to enforce box junction markings not adequately maintained 2130435061: TfL conflation two periods ambiguity 2130552123:not proved reason why footway lowered 2130496871: Although charge certificate cancelled procedural impropriety 2130536182:NoR appeal to PATAS 28 days of this letter being served misstates the time 213047747A:identical contravention not contest no reasons entitled 2130533093:attendant had sufficient opportunity to prepare and serve 2130534948/2130535667:requisite consideration but sweeping statement opposed particularized 2130459820 stop due to moving and not stationary 2130314602 wording Notice of Rejection not suggest considered exercising discretion 2130416238 not satisfied VCA Approved Device 2130509124 TMO "leaving "of the vehicle not waiting/parking 2130515193 purpose Notice of Rejection enable make informed decision 2130531167 "active" yellow line 2130521902 unable to consider 2130477516 not entitled removal not off ground driver present no evidence 2130507355 PCN issued/served previous entries chronological 2130524784 NoR footway parking regardless of the circumstances involved inaccurate |
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Wed, 14 May 2014 - 11:31
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 629 Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Member No.: 29,449 |
failure to allow viewing of CCTV recording = PI 2130360654
this one appears to be partially because recipient claimed he did not receive a postal PCN 2130368248 This post has been edited by 2cupsofcoffee: Wed, 14 May 2014 - 11:35 |
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Wed, 14 May 2014 - 11:49
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,031 Joined: 27 May 2008 Member No.: 19,872 |
2130603428 Authority must demonstrate adherence to Code of Practice it issues
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Wed, 14 May 2014 - 21:58
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,031 Joined: 27 May 2008 Member No.: 19,872 |
2140131154 no requirement hirer give England/Wales address
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Fri, 23 May 2014 - 12:26
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
Premature issue of Charge Certificate:
Register Kept Under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators)(London) Regulations 1993, as amended or Paragraph 21 of the Schedule to the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007, as applicable Case Reference: 214008540A Appellant: Authority: Lambeth VRM: PCN: LH57834750 Contravention Date: 29 Oct 2013 Contravention Time: 18:23 Contravention Location: Westminster Bridge Road Penalty Amount: £130.00 Contravention: Being in a bus lane Decision Date: 22 May 2014 Adjudicator: Michael Burke Appeal Decision: Allowed Direction: cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement Notice. Reasons: The Notice of Rejection in this case was dated 28.01.14 and the Notice of Appeal in this case was received by PATAS in time on 20.02.14. I am satisfied that by 06.03.14 the Local Authority would have been aware there was a live appeal before PATAS. Despite this, they issued a Charge Certificate to the Appellant on that date. The Local Authority will be aware of the then Chief Adjudicator's decision in case reference 2050339777 Miah v. City of Westminster in which the Local Authority had issued a Charge Certificate in similar circumstances. The Chief Adjudicator pointed out that the Charge Certificate amounted to an unlawful demand for money coupled with a threat of court action in default, and stated: 'The procedural impropriety in the issuing of this unlawful demand in my view fundamentally undermines the lawfulness of the enforcement process in this case, and undermines the authority and jurisdiction of this tribunal. This unlawful act debars the local authority from pursuing further enforcement of this penalty.' I take the same view in this case as the Chief Adjudicator took in Miah and accordingly I allow the appeal. This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Sat, 24 May 2014 - 23:47 -------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Sat, 24 May 2014 - 14:43
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
Continuous contravention: Case Reference: 2110166557 and:
Register Kept Under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators)(London) Regulations 1993, as amended or Paragraph 21 of the Schedule to the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007, as applicable Case Reference: 2140191859 Appellant: Authority: Merton VRM: PCN: MT62515081 Contravention Date: 28 Nov 2013 Contravention Time: 09:20 Contravention Location: Quicks Road SW19 Penalty Amount: £110.00 Contravention: Parked in a residents or shared use pay without displaying a permit, voucher or Pay & display ticket Decision Date: 23 May 2014 Adjudicator: Gerald Styles Appeal Decision: Allowed Direction: cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner. Reasons: I am recording the appeal against the penalty charge incurred on 28 November as allowed. I am recording the appeal against the penalty charge incurred on 30 November as refused. I refer to my reasons written in connection with the 30 November penalty charge (MT61117210) and recorded earlier today. Case Reference: 2140191859 Appellant: Authority: Merton VRM: PCN: MT61117210 Contravention Date: 30 Nov 2013 Contravention Time: 14:19 Contravention Location: Quicks Road SW19 Penalty Amount: £110.00 Contravention: Parked in a residents or shared use pay without displaying a permit, voucher or Pay & display ticket Decision Date: 23 May 2014 Adjudicator: Gerald Styles Appeal Decision: Refused Direction: None Reasons: I believe the motorist in bringing this appeal challenging the outstanding penalty charges and insisting payment had been made in December was wrong. The Council has prepared its adjudication case summary correctly I believe in referring to three different like penalty charge notices. I have consequently proceeded on the basis that the first penalty charge that is to say the one incurred on 27 November has been paid. (£55) The two under my adjudication are those relating from 28 and 30 November. On both these occasions, as on 27 November, the officer was correct in his decision to impose a penalty charge. The required S2 permit was not displayed. I have read about changing zones but the appellant has the responsibility for ensuring a permit for the correct zone is displayed and it was not in this instance. The Council in relation to the present appeal has sought to insist in its demand that the appellant now pay £110 on each of the outstanding penalty charges. It says the opportunity was given for the discounted payment but that discount has expired. I will correctly point out that Adjudicator at the adjudication stage is not able to reset discount. I consider I have however a duty in cases where there are cumulative penalties for the same, effectively a continuous contravention, to have regard to a general principle that the total demand for penalties should not be exorbitant. In the present case I am aware that the Council would have entitled to impound this vehicle for lack of proper permit and there would be have been no tenable argument for a refund of any of the £255 minimum that would have been required upon release from the pound. Despite that point I have decided the fair and proper course in this instance, given the nature the case overall, is to uphold only the second of the penalty charges under appeal today. Taking into account the £55 paid, the total penalty will thus be £165. I am recording the appeal against the penalty charge incurred on 28 November as allowed. I am recording the appeal against the penalty charge incurred on 30 November as refused. This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Sat, 24 May 2014 - 23:48 -------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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